Update on N.I. e-bike regs.

[flecc]

I thought it might be helpful to post here the full details of the original mandatory order that accompanied the introduction of the EU's pedelec laws into all member states in 2003. Note in the list of states that Northern Ireland is specifically included in this mandatory order.

Also note the content of the very last paragraph right at the foot:

"The EU Directive 2002/24/EC comes into effect on
May 9, 2003 and will replace the current Directive
92/61/EEC.

Until May 9, 2003 the current national regulations concerning the status of pedelecs will remain unchanged. After May 9, 2003, the EU Member States have the choice of either keeping their current regulations for another 6 months or changing over to the EU-directive.

By November 9, 2003 all Members of the EU are required to integrate this Directive into their national legislation and abolish their previous regulations.

Example:
In Great Britain pedelecs with a top speed of 15 mph (22.5 km/h) and 200 Watt motor are classified as bicycles. Pedelecs with a higher top speed or a stronger motor require a type approval.

No later than November 9, 2003, Great Britain must conform to the EU-directive: Pedelecs may have a 250 watt motor and be able to reach a top speed of 16 mph, and still be classified as a bicycle.

Download the Document
The directive 2002/24/EC is available to download at the Official Journal of the European Communities:

Austria
Belgium
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Ireland
Italy
Luxembourg
Portugal
Spain
Sweden
The Netherlands
United Kingdom: Great Britain (England, Scotland, Wales), and Northern Ireland.

New Member States since May 1, 2004:
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Estonia
Hungary
Latvia
Lithuania
Malta
Poland
Slovakia
Slovenia


EU Directives and Regulations are applicable in all Member States. Where Regulations are directly applicable, Directives have to be implemented into national law. (However some provisions of Directives might have a “direct effect”, i.e. they are applicable even if the national legislator fails to implement the Directive in time.)
.

 

[TedG]

Many thanks Flecc. Even though this fiasco doesn't directly concern you we appreciate all your efforts to enlighten us and in turn enlighten those in power.
Have you any objections to me using these facts in our quest for justice wherever that might take us?
Ted.

 

[tommie]

So could you now say the DVLA in Swansea are in direct contravention of this Directive from the EU?

"(However some provisions of Directives might have a “direct effect”, i.e. they are applicable even if the national legislator fails to implement the Directive in time.)"

But how would that feed through to our Road Traffic Act - or would it matter?

 

[flecc]

So could you now say the DVLA in Swansea are in direct contravention of this Directive from the EU?

"(However some provisions of Directives might have a “direct effect”, i.e. they are applicable even if the national legislator fails to implement the Directive in time.)"

Our DVLA were in direct contravention of the order for nearly 12 years from 10th November 2003 to 6th April 2015 since they did not amend or remove our conflicting EAPC regulation details until the latter date. I can't say though if there are any provisions where the "direct effect" applies to N.I.'s failure to apply the law. That's one for the EU lawyers.

But how would that feed through to our Road Traffic Act - or would it matter?

It appears to be the been the norm for N.I. and even our Crown Dependencies to follow the UK in pedelec law. For example, we imposed a lower age limit of 14 years for riding pedelecs in our 1988 Road Traffic Act. Subsequently N.I. included the same limit in their 1995 RTA.

That alone illustrates how silly the situation is. They haven't approved a pedelec law yet have made a lower age limit for their use!
.

 

[tommie]

For example, we imposed a lower age limit of 14 years for riding pedelecs in our 1988 Road Traffic Act. Subsequently N.I. included the same limit in their 1995 RTA.

That alone illustrates how silly the situation is. They haven't approved a pedelec law yet have made a lower age limit for their use!
.

How very true....> https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1995/2994/article/46

wasn`t aware of that.... you`re a mine of information Flecc !

 

[TedG]

Tommie
We have already been to Newcastle on the Bromptons
I can't go very fast or any great distance, unlike the Pedelecs but at least we are out on two wheels again (albeit small ones)
Maybe see you someday for a coffee / ice cream in Mauds.

 

[tommie]

Good man Ted!

just to add to my previous, seems our present Road Traffic Act are at odds with what the DVLA are now saying?!!
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1995/2994
"Certain vehicles not to be treated as motor vehicles

6.—(1) For the purposes of the Road Traffic Orders[F17 or the Offenders Order]

(a)a mechanically propelled vehicle being an implement for cutting grass which is controlled by a pedestrian and is not capable of being used or adapted for any other purpose;

(b)any other mechanically propelled vehicle controlled by a pedestrian which may be prescribed for the purposes of this Article; and

(c)an electrically assisted pedal cycle of such a class as may be so prescribed,"

 

[flecc]

(c)an electrically assisted pedal cycle of such a class as may be so prescribed,"

It's the "as may be so prescribed" that is the problem.

The prescribing for use is a national matter, as in the UK EAPC regulations which are not in force in N.I.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Good man Ted!

just to add to my previous, seems our present Road Traffic Act are at odds with what the DVLA are now saying?!!
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1995/2994
"Certain vehicles not to be treated as motor vehicles

6.—(1) For the purposes of the Road Traffic Orders[F17 or the Offenders Order]

(a)a mechanically propelled vehicle being an implement for cutting grass which is controlled by a pedestrian and is not capable of being used or adapted for any other purpose;

(b)any other mechanically propelled vehicle controlled by a pedestrian which may be prescribed for the purposes of this Article; and

(c)an electrically assisted pedal cycle of such a class as may be so prescribed,"

Maybe someone should send that law to the police who confiscated the pedelec?

 

[flecc]

Many thanks Flecc. Even though this fiasco doesn't directly concern you we appreciate all your efforts to enlighten us and in turn enlighten those in power.
Have you any objections to me using these facts in our quest for justice wherever that might take us?
Ted.

No objections whatsoever Ted, and I'm happy to answer any questions in this connection or help with advice.

Be aware that the authorities have already objected that this order concerns the Type Approval regulation, not one of usage, so that type approval law doesn't apply for permission to use.

However, the UK EAPC usage law did intrude into type approval exemption in a way that conflicted with the order in specifying machine details like the 200 watt limit. Therefore compliance meant changing the EAPC regulations, which was finally done here in 2015.

Whilst none of this can force N.I. or the DVLA into bringing in EAPC for N.I., it clearly indicates what was supposed to happen and the failures to make it happen.

As I've posted previously, a form of temporary waiver could be granted to permit pedelec use, on the grounds that there is a soundly based genuine belief that EAPC will be passed into law at a future date.

Since the UK DVLA appears to be the N.I. pedelec registration authority for the present, they have some authority to address the matter. If someone there could be sufficiently engaged to set up a meeting with the main interested parties, including the N.I. police chief, a waiver might be agreed as happened on 13th April 2013 here. By mutual agreement of the interested parties that advised that in excess of 200 watts and up to 250 watts should not be prosecuted, despite it being an offence in law.

The statements by the PSNI chief officer that the matter was up to individual officers made it clear to me that he really wasn't interested in such prosecutions and he'd rather his officers don't take such an action. But of course as their senior police officer he could not tell or even ask them to ignore the law. However I believe he'd welcome DVLA support for the current draconian pedelec law to not be implemented on an open ended temporary basis, until such time as an Assembly did implement the EAPC regulations.
.

 

[TedG]

There is no option to put "like" and "informative"

 

[flecc]

There is no option to put "like" and "informative"

Thanks Ted, but not to worry. I know the information is appreciated and those of us who help in such forums don't do it to be praised.

In the Natural History Museum forum where I mainly answer questions on arthropod species identities like this and this, the answers are often not even acknowledged. Since the inquirers receive an email with my answer they often don't bother to log in to say thanks.
.

 

[Damian.Doherty]

So have you all read this story...

http://limavady.thechronicle.uk.com/articles/news/64293/cyclist-falls-foul-of-e-bike-law/

The one detail I still don't know is what kind of bike he was riding....was it a UK legal 250 watt bike or was he on a 5000W electric motorbike!

I also didn't know he was over the limit until I read the article!

 

[tommie]

"Police have since confirmed a 60-year-old man has been charged with using a motor vehicle without insurance."

That court case will create a precedent, and of course the publicity won`t help the cause either.
I pity the tourists coming here this summer in their camper vans with ebikes hung on the back,

gone from bad to worse.

 

[Danidl]

"Police have since confirmed a 60-year-old man has been charged with using a motor vehicle without insurance."

That court case will create a precedent, and of course the publicity won`t help the cause either.
I pity the tourists coming here this summer in their camper vans with ebikes hung on the back,

gone from bad to worse.

I might beg to differ. This might in fact be the catylst for change. Of course it hinges to some extent on the type of machine he was riding, but if it were one which were legal virtually everywhere in the EU except NI ,then the absurdity of the situation will be evident, and the type of direction that flecc has suggested by the UK vechicle licencing authority basically a letter of comfort might ensue.

 

[flecc]

"Police have since confirmed a 60-year-old man has been charged with using a motor vehicle without insurance."

That court case will create a precedent, and of course the publicity won`t help the cause either.
I pity the tourists coming here this summer in their camper vans with ebikes hung on the back,

gone from bad to worse.

Though he'll probably be aware of this case, it might be an idea to forward the Chronicle link to PSNI Chief Constable George Hamilton QPM.

When he said, as he had to in law, that it was up to his individual officers, it seemed apparent to me that he'd be happy for them to ignore the current position and leave e-bikers alone.

Jogging him might just result in a little quiet backroom chat with the officers concerned and a more reasonable outcome.
.

 

[tommie]

The parking space is a disabled one for a car. My ongoing mobility problems are the original reason for buying a Pedelec in the first place and this I intend pointing out as soon as possible.

30.4.18 at 3pm.

The Hour hath passed.....

Well Ted ? !!!

 

[wheeliepete]

Give him a chance to take his coat off!

 

[TedG]

The Hour hath passed.....

Well Ted ? !!!

OK Tommie lad, been to the palace of Stormont and my report will follow soon.
Fair to say though that the bottom line is these bicycles are illegal and will be treated as such.

 

[TedG]

Give him a chance to take his coat off!

Took my coat off and we had a pair of serious burgers in Eddie Rockets to drown our sorrows.
Wish I had some good news.