Update on N.I. e-bike regs.

[Danidl]

The Bosch bandit! Outlaw, wild wolf of the towpath!
I’m with you Ted, let the message go out to this silly law and the civil servants pedalling it "Ulster says No".............again........
I wonder what the law is "Down South" in the Republic? Perhaps this united Ireland wouldnt be that bad after all.........

In that benighted republic " down south " the law is standard eu . I can fully enjoy the full use of my 250w bosch motored motus as purchased from your excellent john hanna shop in lisburn.... I am happy to give that shop a plug.

Perhaps you might like to bring your bike on your car across the new ferry at greenore and cycle along the coast there. Lovely unspoilt coastal countryside and very level.

 

[tommie]

I was under the impression, maybe wrongly, that a motor-cycle/moped (which our ebikes are now classed as), was a `motor vehicle` ?


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1995/2994#reference-c17247641

Statutory Instruments
1995 No. 2994 (N.I. 18)

The Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995​

Certain vehicles not to be treated as motor vehicles

6.—(1) For the purposes of the Road Traffic Orders[F17 or the Offenders Order]

(a)a mechanically propelled vehicle being an implement for cutting grass which is controlled by a pedestrian and is not capable of being used or adapted for any other purpose;

(b)any other mechanically propelled vehicle controlled by a pedestrian which may be prescribed for the purposes of this Article; and

(c)an electrically assisted pedal cycle of such a class as may be so prescribed,

is to be treated as not being a motor vehicle.

(2) In paragraph (1) “controlled by a pedestrian” means that the vehicle either—

(a)is constructed or adapted for use only under such control; or

(b)is constructed or adapted for use either under such control or under the control of a person carried on it, but is not for the time being in use under, or proceeding under, the control of a person carried on it.

 

[flecc]

I was under the impression, maybe wrongly, that a motor-cycle/moped (which our ebikes are now classed as), was a `motor vehicle` ?


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1995/2994#reference-c17247641

Statutory Instruments
1995 No. 2994 (N.I. 18)

The Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995​

Certain vehicles not to be treated as motor vehicles

6.—(1) For the purposes of the Road Traffic Orders[F17 or the Offenders Order]

(a)a mechanically propelled vehicle being an implement for cutting grass which is controlled by a pedestrian and is not capable of being used or adapted for any other purpose;

(b)any other mechanically propelled vehicle controlled by a pedestrian which may be prescribed for the purposes of this Article; and

(c)an electrically assisted pedal cycle of such a class as may be so prescribed,

is to be treated as not being a motor vehicle.

(2) In paragraph (1) “controlled by a pedestrian” means that the vehicle either—

(a)is constructed or adapted for use only under such control; or

(b)is constructed or adapted for use either under such control or under the control of a person carried on it, but is not for the time being in use under, or proceeding under, the control of a person carried on it.

That's the equivalent of the EU type approval regulation that I quoted in my previous post. It makes up for the failure to implement the EU regulation.

However that's the law on the vehicle, not the user. I think you could use that to argue for exemption from registration and MOTs since those are machine matters, though for some odd reason your civil servants seem to think that isn't the case, though this* may be the reason.

But what you are missing is the like of our EAPC regulation which gives the riding permissions. There you appear to be stuck with motorcycle law.

*Note the words I've highlighted bold in the following:

(c)an electrically assisted pedal cycle of such a class as may be so prescribed,

You haven't got them prescribed.
.

 

[Danidl]

I was under the impression, maybe wrongly, that a motor-cycle/moped (which our ebikes are now classed as), was a `motor vehicle` ?


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisi/1995/2994#reference-c17247641

Statutory Instruments
1995 No. 2994 (N.I. 18)

The Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995​

Certain vehicles not to be treated as motor vehicles

6.—(1) For the purposes of the Road Traffic Orders[F17 or the Offenders Order]

(a)a mechanically propelled vehicle being an implement for cutting grass which is controlled by a pedestrian and is not capable of being used or adapted for any other purpose;

(b)any other mechanically propelled vehicle controlled by a pedestrian which may be prescribed for the purposes of this Article; and

(c)an electrically assisted pedal cycle of such a class as may be so prescribed,

is to be treated as not being a motor vehicle.

(2) In paragraph (1) “controlled by a pedestrian” means that the vehicle either—

(a)is constructed or adapted for use only under such control; or

(b)is constructed or adapted for use either under such control or under the control of a person carried on it, but is not for the time being in use under, or proceeding under, the control of a person carried on it.

.. just taking that text at face value, that would be enabling legislation, not defining legislation. It is allowing for the possibility that a specific class of ebike be not considered as a motor vehicle, but does not define what that class is. So until it is so defined, it remains a motor vehicle.

 

[TedG]

excellent john hanna shop in lisburn.... I am happy to give that shop a plug.

Perhaps you might like to bring your bike on your car across the new ferry at greenore and cycle along the coast there. Lovely unspoilt coastal countryside and very level.

John Hanna, five minutes from where we live. Good shout Danidl.
Next time you are in Lisburn give me a call by whatever means and we can have lunch.

Been over on the ferry the weekend it opened but sadly unable to bring the bikes. Drive to Carlingford for lunch as usual. Excellent day as always.
Missed the bikes though.

SORRY for going off topic.

 

[tommie]

Ok guys, we`ve sat around here long enough,

time to saddle up,

Helens Bay - Bangor

 

[TedG]

Ok guys, we`ve sat around here long enough,

time to saddle up,

Helens Bay - Bangor

Blimey that brings back memories but a LOT more busy than when we have done that route.
The section between Holywood and Helens Bay has a small piece which is impossible for cycling.
Walking, pushing and struggling up a hideous unstable bank. Once attempted never forgotten but the remainder is superb then a rest on the sea wall at Bangor Bay.

 

[Benjahmin]

Ok guys, we`ve sat around here long enough,

time to saddle up,

Helens Bay - Bangor

You reckless outlaw, I recommend transportation for you
Wish my rides were that flat, I'd double my range.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You could always make a bike like this; the entire kit was only about £300. You don't need an expensive donor. A cheapo catalogue-type bike would do, which you can pick up used fro about £15. Even if you had an accident, nobody would notice that it's electric:

 

[anotherkiwi]

Or buy this one in 2018:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/orbea-gain.28978/

 

[DangerousDave79]

You could always make a bike like this; the entire kit was only about £300. You don't need an expensive donor. A cheapo catalogue-type bike would do, which you can pick up used fro about £15. Even if you had an accident, nobody would notice that it's electric:

View attachment 21239

What exactly is the kit D8?

Im assuming one of the batteries is the bottle..

 

[Deleted member 4366]

What exactly is the kit D8?

Im assuming one of the batteries is the bottle..

The battery is in the bottle, the controller is in that little storage tub and the kit is directly from Xiongda.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/how-to-make-a-lightweight-battery.28437/

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/lightweight-trekking-bike-build.28276/

 

[topographer]

Hang on, if they're motor vehicles in N.I. does that mean it's compulsory to either register or S.O.R.N. them?

 

[signwave]

Hang on, if they're motor vehicles in N.I. does that mean it's compulsory to either register or S.O.R.N. them?

If they are registered, they need to be taxed or SORN'd.

 

[Danidl]

Hang on, if they're motor vehicles in N.I. does that mean it's compulsory to either register or S.O.R.N. them?

yes .. and you could get disqualified or I assume points on your licence for driving an untaxed and uninsured vechicle.. see how invidious it actually is?
now just to show how crazy it is the road from Dundalk to Castle blaney both towns in the republic are linked by a road which goes into the NI territory.. no customs etc the only difference is that the road markings are slightly different . It basically would be illegal to have an ebike on that section.

 

[topographer]

It basically would be illegal to have an ebike on that section.

Yeah, that's quite crazy.

 

[TedG]

yes .. and you could get disqualified or I assume points on your licence for driving an untaxed and uninsured vechicle..

Hmm - and if you are a cyclist only and don't drive, therefore no licence and subsequently disqualified from what - cycling on a conventional push bike perhaps?
This gets worse by the day.
Has the holiday season in Stormont finished yet - or is it the pantomime season already?

 

[LeighPing]

This gets worse by the day.
Has the holiday season in Stormont finished yet - or is it the pantomime season already?

Hey come on now, calm down. You don't want to get any points on your no licence.

Of course you'd get even more points for having no licence. Best to apply for your provisional.

Then again, if you've nothing to lose..

 

[flecc]

Hmm - and if you are a cyclist only and don't drive, therefore no licence and subsequently disqualified from what - cycling on a conventional push bike perhaps?

A driving ban on a person not having a licence commences at such future time that they might obtain a licence.

Therefore, a person who hasn't got a licence but is facing the possibility of a ban, the smart move as Leigh Ping says is to immediately take out a provisional licence which lasts two years.

Then any ban received will operate on that, so if they do want a licence at any time in the future, the ban will already have been spent.
.

 

[TedG]

A driving ban on a person not having a licence commences at such future time that they might obtain a licence.

Therefore, a person who hasn't got a licence but is facing the possibility of a ban, the smart move as Leigh Ping says is to immediately take out a provisional licence which lasts two years.

Then any ban received will operate on that, so if they do want a licence at any time in the future, the ban will already have been spent.
.

I have had every licence known to man since 1965 including a well used Class One HGV licence and I have no intentions of looking for points as I have never had any.

When my paper licence was returned for a plastic one a few years back the motorcycle section was "omitted" apparently due to an oversight and I never noticed.
No records apparently go back to 1965 to confirm this.