Update on N.I. e-bike regs.

[flecc]

I'm not sure we would get the proper sort of attention needed while blocking the roads around City Hall.

I agree it might not be helpful. The police there have given a sort of nod and wink that as long as a rider is behaving, they are unlikely to take any notice of a pedelec rider.

Forcing them to take notice could harden attitudes.

A better time to demonstrate to ridicule the authorities would be if and when a prosecution was attempted, since that may never happen.
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[TedG]

I agree it might not be helpful. The police there have given a sort of nod and wink that as long as a rider is behaving, they are unlikely to take any notice of a pedelec rider.

Forcing them to take notice could harden attitudes.

A better time to demonstrate to ridicule the authorities would be if and when a prosecution was attempted, since that may never happen.
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Agree but a prosecution would possibly only happen if there was an accident involving a member of the public and that would send out all the wrong signals.
I have said (thought) all along that a "test case" would provide a LOT of answers.
Since the "ban" began I have never seen an e-bike in use so I feel, like ours, all ebikes are locked away.

 

[TedG]

With proper respect to all you "competitive" boys I can say that the handful of e-bike users we have encountered in the last two years have been like ourselves and into our sixties with health issues.
We saw little or nothing in the way of poor behaviour on e-bikes but again at the risk of the wrath of conventional cyclists some of their behaviour sadly leaves a lot to be desired.

On another somewhat irrelevant point I was a squeaky clean unblemished Class One HGV driver hauling steel since 1971 until forced retirement but the standard of most of those "professionals" these days also leaves a bit to be desired.

 

[TedG]

yes they`re entitled to make their own law ok, but if that particular law discriminates against one particular section of the population then it is, well, .....Discrimination!
Is it not?!

and if anyone wants a glimpse on whats involved in registration, here`s a simple guide for you ...>https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/584797/V355X4-Guide-to-filling-in-the-application-for-first-vehcle-tax-and-registration-of-a-new-motor-vehicle.pdf

That form makes me feel sick. It is a minefield of complexities.

 

[Danidl]

How about you do a group ride through town with the motors turned off. Get the press out. If plod intervenes you can say "It can't be a motorbike if it isn't using a motor"... You need to heap scorn and ridicule on the politicians who let this kind of cr.p happen. And my thoughts on the "United" in UK, you don't want to hear those...

.. don't you get it? It's because they have no government sitting there is no politicians to embarrass

 

[Danidl]

NOT good news.

I hope nobody goes down this route, if there`s a noticeable take up here i`m sure the extra revenue will be noticed and there could well be ramifications for the rest of the UK ebikers.

No mention of indicators, stoplights, tyres, mirrors etc?? Surely we would need those when overtaking in the fast lane of the M1........ at 15.5 mph?

What a crock of horse manure.

.. that is what the mot is for... again my sympathies, it is a comedy of errors.

 

[DangerousDave79]

H

I have been referred to the original document from the DVLA which seems to state that these restrictions / regulations apply to "twist and go" electric bikes. (Throttle operated)
It would appear that they don't apply to standard pedelecs which are powered by pedalling, with a bit of assistance for those in need.
I'm not sure I am convinced.

Here Ted, Ive a good solution for yea, its what me and most others in NI will be doing for the forseeable future. Get on your bike and enjoy it, say nothing, register with nothing, and see if our already stretched police force and judicial system will be bothered chasing you down for not displaying your ebike licence on the rear of your bike.......

But if you are going to do the unbeleivable and register, let me know the expression on the faces of the guys in the MOT centre when you cycle up to Lane 1 with your MOT booking form....

 

[TedG]

OK guys, I have to ask. Bear with me.
Scenario.
We are both out on our bikes. Plod senses a collar so stops us. We switch off the motor with two pushes on a thumb rocker switch on the handlebars unseen. How could plod prove a motor was being used prior to the stop?
We would say that because ebikes are illegal they are the only bike we have so we were using them as pedal cycles which are legal.

Even in the unlikely event of an accident (pensioners with countless years road experience so no furious riding) and we switch off the motor, how would it be proved that the motor was active at the time of the accident?

 

[TedG]

H


Here Ted, Ive a good solution for yea, its what me and most others in NI will be doing for the forseeable future. Get on your bike and enjoy it, say nothing, register with nothing, and see if our already stretched police force and judicial system will be bothered chasing you down for not displaying your ebike licence on the rear of your bike.......

But if you are going to do the unbeleivable and register, let me know the expression on the faces of the guys in the MOT centre when you cycle up to Lane 1 with your MOT booking form....

We won't be doing the registering nightmare. I won't be applying for a licence as I had one since 1966 and used it riding 170 mph superbikes for over 30 years.
I have a retired friend from the MOT (when it was in Lislea Drive for those who remember) and he says they will have to be issued with some directive to uphold the law however daft it is.
It won't stop them having a laugh however.
The whole pantomime is steadily become an unwanted shambles but that won't stop politicians getting in on the "outdo each other" act.

 

[LeighPing]

OK guys, I have to ask. Bear with me.
Scenario.
We are both out on our bikes. Plod senses a collar so stops us. We switch off the motor with two pushes on a thumb rocker switch on the handlebars unseen. How could plod prove a motor was being used prior to the stop?
We would say that because ebikes are illegal they are the only bike we have so we were using them as pedal cycles which are legal.

Even in the unlikely event of an accident (pensioners with countless years road experience so no furious riding) and we switch off the motor, how would it be proved that the motor was active at the time of the accident?

In a nutshell, they couldn't. Talking of nuts, they wouldn't give a flying fox about your 15.5 mph bike. E or otherwise. Go ride it and enjoy your well earned retirement.

 

[tommie]

This is the advice given by Halfords to their NI customers..

Until this can be resolved and you can fulfill the requirements we suggest that you stop using your bike as an e-bike. You could continue to use the bike as a standard pushbike by removing the battery and using the bike without the battery in place

Yes Ted, i`m sure even that Johnnie Cochran (of O.J. Simpson fame) couldn`t prove you had a motor switched on!

 

[anotherkiwi]

This is the advice given by Halfords to their NI customers..

Until this can be resolved and you can fulfill the requirements we suggest that you stop using your bike as an e-bike. You could continue to use the bike as a standard pushbike by removing the battery and using the bike without the battery in place

Yes Ted, i`m sure even that Johnnie Cochran (of O.J. Simpson fame) couldn`t prove you had a motor switched on!

Oi you! What is that wire coming out of your backpack for? Why is it attached to your bicycle?

 

[Danidl]

OK guys, I have to ask. Bear with me.
Scenario.
We are both out on our bikes. Plod senses a collar so stops us. We switch off the motor with two pushes on a thumb rocker switch on the handlebars unseen. How could plod prove a motor was being used prior to the stop?
We would say that because ebikes are illegal they are the only bike we have so we were using them as pedal cycles which are legal.

Even in the unlikely event of an accident (pensioners with countless years road experience so no furious riding) and we switch off the motor, how would it be proved that the motor was active at the time of the accident?

... As devils advocate here I am suggesting that just having that bike on the public highway is an offense, whether the motor was active or not. It does not have the necessary licence plates etc and you were not wearing a regulation motorbike helmet. Mr Plod would say you were in control of an unlicenced machine., Just like you can be had up if drunk and having the keys of a car, even they if not in the ignition and the car is out of petrol..
Mr Plod then brings you to court and being a good upstanding Protestant, when asked to swear on the Bible, and then asked the obvious question , you will answer honestly and your goose is cooked. (Not having been schooled in the principles of "mental reservation" , this will be the case. )

 

[Danidl]

Oi you! What is that wire coming out of your backpack for? Why is it attached to your bicycle?

.. that is a discussion you do not want to have in NI with a policeman.

 

[DangerousDave79]

The Bosch bandit! Outlaw, wild wolf of the towpath!
I’m with you Ted, let the message go out to this silly law and the civil servants pedalling it "Ulster says No".............again........
I wonder what the law is "Down South" in the Republic? Perhaps this united Ireland wouldnt be that bad after all.........

 

[flecc]

Danidl is right and Halfords are giving bad advice. An e-bike used unregistered is illegal there, regardless of whether switched off, without battery, or even broken down.
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[flecc]

I wonder what the law is "Down South" in the Republic?

It's EU pedelec law, no need for bureaucracy, just ride like an ordinary bicycle.
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[DangerousDave79]

Danidl is right and Halfords are giving bad advice. An e-bike used unregistered is illegal there, regardless of whether switched off, without battery, or even broken down.
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Flecc, can you point me towards the relevant legislation or case law that supports your "opinion"?

 

[TedG]

The Bosch bandit! Outlaw, wild wolf of the towpath!
I’m with you Ted, let the message go out to this silly law and the civil servants pedalling it "Ulster says No".............again........
I wonder what the law is "Down South" in the Republic? Perhaps this united Ireland wouldnt be that bad after all.........

 

[flecc]

Flecc, can you point me towards the relevant legislation or case law that supports your "opinion"?

I'm not familiar with prior N.I. law which didn't get updated with the 2003 exemption for pedelecs from being motor vehicles contained in Exemptions sub-section (h) of the Two and Three Wheeled Type Approval regulation 2002/24/EC. That applies elsewhere in the UK, but transport being devolved and there being no sitting N.I. assembly at the crucial time, N.I was left adrift. I've been given to understand that means only motorcycle law is available to classify a motorised two wheeler there.

This is akin to what applied long ago in the UK, where assisted bikes from the 1940s through to 1983 had to be registered, plated and ridden with a full motorcycle licence. The 1983 EAPC regulations corrected that anomaly, but it appears that only applied in the rest of the UK, not N.I.

N.I. is in the EU of course (for the moment), so in EU law pedelecs as machines are permitted by the 2002/24/EC exemption, even though N.I. failed to implement the regulation.

However, usage rules are a matter for member nations, and N.I. has no EAPC usage permission. Rather weirdly though, N.I. has pedelec riding permission for those over 14 years old* in their own 1995 Road Traffic Act, this following our similar UK 1988 Road Traffic Act lower age limit.

*Still have to be registered though and ridden as motorcycles.
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