Right.... That seems pretty useless then for what I want, unless I am missing something, it will only propel me up to 6mph?
Right, now I'm really confused, is electrical assistance without pedaling at all illegal?
Total newbie looking to buy an eBike, want some advice on a model!
- Thread starter Karliah
- Start date
UK Legal Full Throttle Electric Bikes
Each of our Traditional, Wayfarer (hub-drive) and Tailwind e-bikes are now available with a full throttle option that will power the bikes up to 15.5mph without pedalling. As these bikes are currently certified to order, please expect an extended lead time of 2-8 weeks. As well as making our bikes safer and more easily controlled at low speeds, Wisper full throttle electric bicycles make cycling even more inclusive than ordinary eBikes, enabling those that need a little extra help when discovering, or returning to the joys and freedom cycling offers.
If you would like to order a Wisper Full Throttle Electric Bike, please be sure to select the ‘Full Throttle’ option on the product page when specifying your new Wisper. Wisper Full Throttle Electric Bikes are fully road legal and certified (L1e) in the UK*
* L1e bikes are only recognised in the UK. It is the user’s responsibility to ensure the bike is legal before using the bike outside the UK.
For more information about our full-throttle electric bike options, please see full details here
wisperbikes.com
Each of our Traditional, Wayfarer (hub-drive) and Tailwind e-bikes are now available with a full throttle option that will power the bikes up to 15.5mph without pedalling. As these bikes are currently certified to order, please expect an extended lead time of 2-8 weeks. As well as making our bikes safer and more easily controlled at low speeds, Wisper full throttle electric bicycles make cycling even more inclusive than ordinary eBikes, enabling those that need a little extra help when discovering, or returning to the joys and freedom cycling offers.
If you would like to order a Wisper Full Throttle Electric Bike, please be sure to select the ‘Full Throttle’ option on the product page when specifying your new Wisper. Wisper Full Throttle Electric Bikes are fully road legal and certified (L1e) in the UK*
* L1e bikes are only recognised in the UK. It is the user’s responsibility to ensure the bike is legal before using the bike outside the UK.
For more information about our full-throttle electric bike options, please see full details here
Full Throttle Electric Bikes Archives
Upgrade your new Wisper electric bike with throttle. Get your wisper e-bike with throttle by choosing the 'full-throttle' option. Compatible e-bikes only
wisperbikes.com
Not 6mph, it's 6kph in the EU which is 4 mph here.
Yes, these are EAPCs, standing for Electric Assist Pedal Cycles. They are not very low powered motor cycles. I repeat what I've posted before, these are NOT e-bikes (electric bikes), there is no such thing in law.
It is a widely ignored law in Britain but is still then breaking the law.
There is a British concession to allow full throttles, but only by taking it though Single Vehicle approval at an official testing station, costing £55, to classify it as class 250LPM, meaning Low Powered Moped. The DfT says that for legal purposes it will regard these as still being EAPCs.
But if you are converting an ordinary bike by adding a motor, that has a loophole allowing full throttle. So, if you go the kit route you have no worries about a throttle.
All very complicated in typical British fashion.
.
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Haibike Sduro RRP £2840 Ebike electric bike hybrid Bosch 500Wh De Restricted | eBay
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has same motor and batt as my bike.
pros
its cheap if you can get it under 1k.
comes with a dongle.
motors are bomb proof even with a dongle i cant kill one.
motor can be fully serviced and rebuilt but should be good for 10-15 thousand miles.
you can upgrade the display to kiox so can use the maps app ect.
my original batt still worked b4 i sent it off.
cons
new batts are 633
new smart batts wont work with older motors
the wheels fork and group set is as cheap as it gets
there is a recell service but its not cheap around 500 quid and it can go wrong bms bricks its self and bin job.
Be aware that these Bosch powered bikes have no throttle and technically cannot have one added. So they always require pedal input to get any assistance.Haibike Sduro RRP £2840 Ebike electric bike hybrid Bosch 500Wh De Restricted | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Haibike Sduro RRP £2840 Ebike electric bike hybrid Bosch 500Wh De Restricted at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.www.ebay.co.uk
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Yes... Very complicated indeed, well I was almost sold on this one
36V250W 26"/28" Front E-Bike Conversion Kit + 36V15.6Ah HL Plus Batter
1.Technical Data and Packing list PACKING LIST (EBK36250F26B+15HLPLUS) Item Description Quantity Remarks 1 26"/28" Wheel with Front Motor 1 36V250W Front Motor, Installation Width=100mm, Diameter=130mm.13G spokes with double wall 28" rimMax Speed: 25km/hMax Torque...
www.yosepower.co.uk
However now if it can only send me 4mph (Correct?) Then it is useless for my purpose, although I cannot see anywhere in the specifications that it says that, so how would I know when shopping for kits that its walk assist only? Sorry if its a stupid question I'm a bit lost.
So when @Cadence mentioned that replacing the controller on the 250w for the 350w made it illegal, you said its because the law says power only when pedaling, and this allows a full throttle up to 15.5MPH, but I thought you just said that there is a loophole with conversion kits that allow twist and go (or thumb throttles?) and they don't require type approval, wouldn't this apply here or am I missing something extremely obvious?
On a side note, is there a noticeable difference in difficulty to pedal without battery assistance in a front vs rear motor?
i take it you have never ridden one but it dont take much rpm to get you shifting along faster than anything with a throttle going 15mph.
i can put a throttle on it ill just rip out the controller bms and display and shove 50a up its ass
might get some custom motor mounts for bafangs next year
No, it's not a stupid question, the spec says:Yes... Very complicated indeed, well I was almost sold on this one
36V250W 26"/28" Front E-Bike Conversion Kit + 36V15.6Ah HL Plus Batter
1.Technical Data and Packing list PACKING LIST (EBK36250F26B+15HLPLUS) Item Description Quantity Remarks 1 26"/28" Wheel with Front Motor 1 36V250W Front Motor, Installation Width=100mm, Diameter=130mm.13G spokes with double wall 28" rimMax Speed: 25km/hMax Torque...
However now if it can only send me 4mph (Correct?) Then it is useless for my purpose, although I cannot see anywhere in the specifications that it says that, so how would I know when shopping for kits that its walk assist only? Sorry if its a stupid question I'm a bit lost.
"6km/h traction with holding Down Button."
So that's walk assist, your only throttle, so no good for you.
I didn't know why Cadence was proposing, and as you see that can make a big difference. If he is going the kit route with a pre-existing used bicycle, he's ok. But if he's buying a new bicycle and a motor to convert it, technically he's not. We have to be so careful not to give wrong advice.
No, both are the same from a pedalling point of view, since the motors you are looking at have internal freewheels meaning no added drag when unpowered.
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Ok, for clarity I checked the specs. of the 250w rear hub kit on YosePower's .com EU website after I bought it and in the notes there it states that the max speed of the throttle is 6kmH. This relates to the thumb throttle. Please note that this is in addition to the "hold down minus button" which also gives the same "walk assist"!Yes... Very complicated indeed, well I was almost sold on this one
36V250W 26"/28" Front E-Bike Conversion Kit + 36V15.6Ah HL Plus Batter
1.Technical Data and Packing list PACKING LIST (EBK36250F26B+15HLPLUS) Item Description Quantity Remarks 1 26"/28" Wheel with Front Motor 1 36V250W Front Motor, Installation Width=100mm, Diameter=130mm.13G spokes with double wall 28" rimMax Speed: 25km/hMax Torque...
However now if it can only send me 4mph (Correct?) Then it is useless for my purpose, although I cannot see anywhere in the specifications that it says that, so how would I know when shopping for kits that its walk assist only? Sorry if its a stupid question I'm a bit lost.
E-Bike Conversion Kit 36V 250W 26"/27.5"/ 28"(700C) Rear Motor Kit for (yosepower.com)
There seems to be more information (and user feedback) on the EU website than the UK one.
I suggest you email Yose for specific details about whichever kit you might be interested in. As I said before, I have no knowledge of their front hub kits that you have linked to. For all I know the throttle settings may be different (but I doubt it).
You say "it can only send me 4mph (Correct?)". The throttle only (no pedaling) will be limited to 4-6mph, but assistance while pedalling without using the throttle will be up to the legal limit (15.5mph)
It's perhaps worth mentioning that many people are happy not to have a throttle fitted at all - I just happen to find one useful.
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Haha right, so its a technicality basically - New bike and New twist and go throttle conversion = Illegal and needs type approval, Used Bike and New twist and go throttle coversion = legal and exempt from type approval, got it.
So you could just buy a new bike, ride it on the road once and convert it and its techically now legal? How stupid and complicated, but if its intended to stop new shops from selling twist & go brand new then that makes sense.
A question about the batteries - Are all Bike batteries interchangeable or do some have proprietary connectors?
If for example I wanted to buy this kit
And pair it with
36V15.6Ah/36V17.4Ah/48V13Ah HL1-2 Hailong Down Tube Lithium-ion E-bike
1.Technical Data Item Specification Battery Model EBB-036156-HL1-2 EBB-036174-HL1-2 EBB-048130-HL1-2 Voltage 36V 36V 48V Capacity 15.6Ah 17.4Ah 13Ah Cell High Power Li-ion LiNiCoMnO2 High Power Li-ion LiNiCoMnO2 High Power Li-ion LiNiCoMnO2 Weight(with holder) Appr.3.8kg Appr.5kg Appr. Energy...
www.yosepower.co.uk
Would that work?
Another question, is thumb throttle better than twist & go? I would have thought twist would be a bit more sensitive if going over terrain it could make you twist more and speed up, or is that something that does not happen?
Probably, but I hope you wouldn't buy that useless, overpowered direct drive motor.A question about the batteries - Are all Bike batteries interchangeable or do some have proprietary connectors?
If for example I wanted to buy this kit
And pair it with
36V15.6Ah/36V17.4Ah/48V13Ah HL1-2 Hailong Down Tube Lithium-ion E-bike
1.Technical Data Item Specification Battery Model EBB-036156-HL1-2 EBB-036174-HL1-2 EBB-048130-HL1-2 Voltage 36V 36V 48V Capacity 15.6Ah 17.4Ah 13Ah Cell High Power Li-ion LiNiCoMnO2 High Power Li-ion LiNiCoMnO2 High Power Li-ion LiNiCoMnO2 Weight(with holder) Appr.3.8kg Appr.5kg Appr. Energy...
Would that work?
When controllers and batteries both have simple two wire connections, positive and negative, they work ok.
But some more sophisticated systems have multi wire connections which only work when they communicate as designed, sometimes referred to as CanBus.
So caveat emptor.
Personal preference. Twist throttles can be jiggly over rough surfaces, but I find thumb throttles just as bad. I prefer a half twistgrip throttle, inner half twists to apply power, the outer half is stationary handgrip giving a stationary reference when both halves are gripped together:
this will spin your head out but would you believe it if i said the biggest haibike top end bike dealer in the uk sell legal bikes with all the certs yet also sells dongles fits them to the bikes so not road legal and will honor the 2 year motor warranty when no other dealer can do this.
my bike was from ebike shop but as it was 2nd hand no warranty and means i cant even buy parts for my bike as never bought it direct from them with only 160 miles on it.
and they win the best dealer award every year
www.e-bikeshop.co.uk
so they can sell non road legal bikes honor the warranty and $hit on every other dealer because. they cant or wont do it and will void any warranty if they find a dongle or one has been used.
that batt you posted will work with that motor but the batt must be able to supply the controller with cont amps that it needs to pull so max 30a discharge batt and 25a controller should be fine set up like that and get you over 30mph.
id go with a thumb throttle as both are really cheap and the twist ones brake more easy esp the super cheep ones even for normal bikes it just what you prefer as both are cheap to replace.
my bike was from ebike shop but as it was 2nd hand no warranty and means i cant even buy parts for my bike as never bought it direct from them with only 160 miles on it.
and they win the best dealer award every year
Tuning Dongle Kit for Bosch e-bikes – e-bikeshop.co.uk
Our Bosch Tuning dongles are the answer if you get fed up with hitting the speed cut off on Bosch powered electric e-bikes.
www.e-bikeshop.co.uk
so they can sell non road legal bikes honor the warranty and $hit on every other dealer because. they cant or wont do it and will void any warranty if they find a dongle or one has been used.
that batt you posted will work with that motor but the batt must be able to supply the controller with cont amps that it needs to pull so max 30a discharge batt and 25a controller should be fine set up like that and get you over 30mph.
id go with a thumb throttle as both are really cheap and the twist ones brake more easy esp the super cheep ones even for normal bikes it just what you prefer as both are cheap to replace.
Right, thanks for that, will definitely keep that in mind - And no, wasn't intending on buying that, just linked it as an example!Probably, but I hope you wouldn't buy that useless, overpowered direct drive motor.
When controllers and batteries both have simple two wire connections, positive and negative, they work ok.
But some more sophisticated systems have multi wire connections which only work when they communicate as designed, sometimes referred to as CanBus.
So caveat emptor.
Personal preference. Twist throttles can be jiggly over rough surfaces, but I find thumb throttles just as bad. I prefer a half twistgrip throttle, inner half twists to apply power, the outer half is stationary handgrip giving a stationary reference when both halves are gripped together:
Main thing now is to look for a simple 250W kit, Undecided on front or rear and pair it with the YOSE Power battery.
@Cadence said he had paired the 350W controller into the 250W kit, however when I go on the 350W kits here
36V350W 26"/27.5"/28" Rear E-Bike Conversion Kit for Cassette with 36V
1.Technical Data and Packing list PACKING LIST (EBK36350R26KB+145HL1) Item Description Quantity Remarks 1 26"/27.5"/28" Wheel with Rear Motor 1 36V350W Rear Motor, Installation Width=135mm, Diameter=138mm.Gearshift: Fit fot Cassette Freewheel(8S/9S/10S)13G spokes with double wall wheelMax Speed...
www.yosepower.co.uk
It is still saying limited to 6km/h (I assume that's the walk assist)
So with that controller i am stuck at 6km/h and would have to buy a separate controller to get any higher?
Pricing on these kits is excellent for me and you get support, any ideas on 250W kits that will allow me to get to 15.5 without pedaling? I will then pair it with a battery from Yosepower and that should get me going.
Unsure where to start, is there a guide anywhere or is it better to just ask you guys for recommendations?
Single Stage Big Block Middrive- RHD
The best value in a high performance mid drive kit
lightning-rods10.mybigcommerce.com
just get that or a motor out of a washing machine
its like a bbs hd on a toys r us bike of road at 30A
My Yose kit was delivered with a throttle assisting up to 15.5mph. I guess they sell many different kits. I don't see a reason why somebody would want to install a throttle for walk assist only. It doesn't make any sense and would be very uncomfortable to walk and hold throttle down.
Throttle speed can be set in options on some LCD displays.
Yose have live chat. Best to ask, but keep in mind people on chat are not very competent (one I was talking to wasn't for sure)
I suggest you buy kit with battery included. Some kits have separate controller and some have controller integrated in battery holder (my preferred choice).
Throttle speed can be set in options on some LCD displays.
Yose have live chat. Best to ask, but keep in mind people on chat are not very competent (one I was talking to wasn't for sure)
I suggest you buy kit with battery included. Some kits have separate controller and some have controller integrated in battery holder (my preferred choice).
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Is the requirement to be not turning the pedals or not actually providing effort from the pedals? With a hub motor with cadence sensor you can always "ghost pedal" turning the pedals without putting any pressure on and letting the motor do all the work at whatever assist level you have set.
Yes, ask for recommendations from those who kit build like Az above. As he says, I'd prefer to get the whole package from one supplier with UK support who can guide you knowledgably, like Woosh I mentioned before. It might cost slightly more but I'd say the benefits make that worthwhile.
.
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