Torque or speed sensor - preferences?

[Artstu]

There are other times that throttle is very useful - when riding along side my boy for example, I want no assist at all.

I thought turning a throttle did just that, assist as I've said several times now a good system will allow you to pedal as you would on a normal bike at any speed in the assist range. No drama's at all, even in full power.

Each to their own but I prefer to be able to control the amount of power manually, and constantly. That's not quite so easy with pedal/torque sensor.

again that's exactly what a good system does. I take it that you've not ridden a Bosch or other good system bike before either?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Most of Europe seems to manage perfectly well without a throttle on what is still essentially a bicycle so I really don't understand why some British folk feel they are close to essential.

That's a very self-centred attitude. You should be more sympathetic to the needs of others. Some people are hardly able to pedal. Throttles are a life saver for them.

Your argument about throttles is the same as what non-powered cyclists use against EPACs. The British regulations allow motors and the throttles, so that's what myself and many others will use.

There is absolutely no argument against throttles. You don't have to use one just because it's fitted to your bike, but I bet if you were lucky enough to have one on your bike, you'd find reasons to use it occasionally like I do.

 

[Alan Quay]

I thought turning a throttle did just that, assist as I've said several times now a good system will allow you to pedal as you would on a normal bike at any speed in the assist range. No drama's at all, even in full power.


again that's exactly what a good system does. I take it that you've not ridden a Bosch or other good system bike before either?

Hmm, your missing the point there. with a throttle, you can chose not to twist it, the same as switching your bike off, but without the hassle of actually doing so.

I have ridden Bosch bikes, and I agree that the torque sensors are great. they are not as immediately flexible as a throttle though.

 

[Artstu]

Hmm, your missing the point there. with a throttle, you can chose not to twist it, the same as switching your bike off, but without the hassle of actually doing so.

I have ridden Bosch bikes, and I agree that the torque sensors are great. they are not as immediately flexible as a throttle though.

I can imagine the sideways swerve you execute when pedalling your heavy bike with no assistance, that's if I'm understanding you correctly.

Perhaps you need to spend a bit more time with a Bosch bike. I've ridden slowly with kids a lot on my bike and I know I prefer what my bike will do to what you're having to do.

However we're all different and what suits me clearly doesn't suit you. I'd say you're missing the point, but we'll leave it there I think.

 

[tillson]

Personally, I can't see why anyone would not want one, apart from what's for me a ridiculous argument where people want their electric bike to be like a non-electric one, in which case they can take the battery out and leave it at home.

As you know, I'm a fan of torque sensors, as can be found on my Panasonic crank drive bike. That said, I can see a real need for bikes with throttles and to exclude them would exclude a lot of people from enjoying the benefits of ebikes, so we need both types.

To suggest that it is ridiculous to want an ebike to be like a non electric bike is both unfair and misguided. What the statement actually means, is that people want their electric bike to have characteristics which are similar to a no assisted bike. For example, you pedal harder and you go faster, you pedal lightly and you slow down, just like an ordinary bike. The difference being, the effort that the rider puts in is measured and then multiplied by a pre-determined factor. This means that that a fairly weak rider can achieve a power output at the back wheel of similar magnitude to that of a very fit cyclist. For some, not all, this is important because the feeling of muscle exertion being directly proportional to bike performance is what they want. Now this may not suit everyone, but it certainly isn't a ridiculous concept and taking the battery off an electric bike will not replicate what I have just described.

At any time, you can press the lever, and away you go, which is much quicker and safer than pedalling to start.

I have to disagree with this too. With a crank driven bike, if you press down moderately hard on the pedal as you set off, the acceleration is usually adequate to get you across the junction before the car behind has selected first gear and pulled away. If the following car decides that it's going to be a drag race from the lights, you are going to lose whatever you are riding.

I have lived with a crank driven bike for a long time and have a lot of experience of their characteristics, benefits and shortcomings. I have hardly any experience of hub motors (Ezee kit with throttle for a short time), but the little experience that I do have tells me that there is a definite need for this type of bike / motor and I can see why people like them. Maybe one day I will require a hub motor and throttle combination and I will be happy to ride one, but at the moment, crank drives with torque sensors are my preferred choice and I hope they are around for a long time to come.

 

[Alan Quay]

I can imagine the sideways swerve you execute when pedalling your heavy bike with no assistance, that's if I'm understanding you correctly.

Perhaps you need to spend a bit more time with a Bosch bike. I've ridden slowly with kids a lot on my bike and I know I prefer what my bike will do to what you're having to do.

However we're all different and what suits me clearly doesn't suit you. I'd say you're missing the point, but we'll leave it there I think.

Sideways swerve/heavy bike? Where's that come from?

 

[Artstu]

trying to pedal a heavy unassisted bike when you're used to the response you get when assisted. but then again I'm used to the instantaneous response from my bike. That effect won't catch you out on bikes where the power takes a second or so to come in, so perhaps not something you're familiar with.

 

[oldtom]

I prefer to be able to control the amount of power manually, and constantly. That's not quite so easy with pedal/torque sensor.

I disagree. Anyone who can't exercise full control at any given speed on a good torque sensor bike really shouldn't be riding a bike at all.

No such devices exist on regular pushbikes therefore all speed control is via pedal work and surely if there were any merit in your premise, the European EAPC riders would be screaming to have the law changed so they can enjoy the mythical benefits you claim? They would cite the British situation to make their case, I'm sure.

The truth is that there is no real demand for throttles on EAPCs and the bikes from the crank-drive suppliers I mentioned are all beautifully controllable in all circumstances.

Frankly, people who want to spend time on bikes without doing much, or any, pedalling really ought to be riding mopeds.

Tom

 

[Alan Quay]

.... if there were any merit in your premise, the European EAPC riders would be screaming to have the law changed so they can enjoy the mythical benefits you claim?

My premise has full merit, and is 100% factually correct and verifiable. I do indeed prefer a throttle

Here's the proof:

Me: Would you prefer to have a throttle on you bike?
Me: Yes.

Sorry to be obtuse, but that's the third time today that someone has told me that my preference is 'wrong' or 'invalid'.

 

[rippedupno1]

You are so right.Mike, it is all about personal preference. What is right for one person might not be for another and makes your choice absolutely correct, for you.

 

[alex_h]

Give me a throttle every time; much the finest power control.

it is indeed, I've had a Kalkhoff Impusle for a short while which I bought as a good deal. Always read how crank drives climb well but I got rid of the bike after 3 months. Sorry but I just could not put up with it. Not sure if it was that impusle drive or if it something like crank drives just are. Simply did not like it

 

[oldtom]

There is absolutely no argument against throttles.

You do come out with some right old rollocks at times! Perhaps you hadn't noticed but there's a massive argument against throttles on mainland Europe, (It's enshrined in legislation) where there are far more EAPC riders than on this island. That's why they don't have them. You should know full well also that the European authorities would like to see the UK in harmony with the rest of Europe and that is likely to occur in a couple of years' time with the UK agreeing to a set of regs which will mean the demise of the throttle.

You know equally well that the UK power limit is 200w so while you want to ignore the European legislation on throttles, you are happy to accept their limit on motor power...and then some! Talk about double standards!

Like all the other proponents of throttles, you fail to answer the point about how the Europeans manage without throttles. For me, if a person is unable to ride an EAPC by pedalling, they ought to be on scooters, mopeds or motorcycles. There is no need for those who cannot pedal to be off the road using two wheels; they just change to appropriate machinery and I see no problem with that.

Tom

 

[Jonah]

Crank drives / torque sensor bikes like the Kalkhoff Impulse, Panasonic and Bosch all reward those that want to (and are able to) cycle just as they would (used to) cycle an ordinary bike. If that's what you want (and usually that is what I want) they cannot be bettered. However, for any number of reasons, this might not be what everybody wants. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, but for particular people with specific requirements it might well be true that one option is better than the others.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You do come out with some right old rollocks at times! Perhaps you hadn't noticed but there's a massive argument against throttles on mainland Europe, (It's enshrined in legislation) where there are far more EAPC riders than on this island. That's why they don't have them. You should know full well also that the European authorities would like to see the UK in harmony with the rest of Europe and that is likely to occur in a couple of years' time with the UK agreeing to a set of regs which will mean the demise of the throttle.

You know equally well that the UK power limit is 200w so while you want to ignore the European legislation on throttles, you are happy to accept their limit on motor power...and then some! Talk about double standards!

Like all the other proponents of throttles, you fail to answer the point about how the Europeans manage without throttles. For me, if a person is unable to ride an EAPC by pedalling, they ought to be on scooters, mopeds or motorcycles. There is no need for those who cannot pedal to be off the road using two wheels; they just change to appropriate machinery and I see no problem with that.

Tom

Have you been drinking again? Shame on you!

 

[Jimod]

Like all the other proponents of throttles, you fail to answer the point about how the Europeans manage without throttles. For me, if a person is unable to ride an EAPC by pedalling, they ought to be on scooters, mopeds or motorcycles. There is no need for those who cannot pedal to be off the road using two wheels; they just change to appropriate machinery and I see no problem with that.

Tom

Are you being serious? My grandson and I go cycling in the Helix park in Falkirk. My wife is disabled and can't pedal a bike, so she stayed at home. I bought her a Woosh Santana CD, a bike with a throttle. She can now go cycling with us. Just so you know, the Helix is full of 10' wide cycle paths. You can NOT take a scooter or moped on them.

Maybe you think she should stay at home?

 

[Ronnyuk]

I love my throttle

If you own a cheaper E-Bike then the pedal sensor is either on or off so the throttle gives you perfect control all the time, if you can afford an expensive bike then I am sure a 3 grand bike with Bosch crank drive is lovely but for me on a 800 quid bike I will stick to the throttle.

I also like the fact when I get to the top of a hill and I am shagged out from pedalling the very thought of just chilling along freewheel throttling is pure bliss
The only downside to having a throttle is that your 3 year old son could pull it back while the bike is turned on in the front room and smash up a brand New TV

 

[oldtom]

Are you being serious? My grandson and I go cycling in the Helix park in Falkirk. My wife is disabled and can't pedal a bike, so she stayed at home. I bought her a Woosh Santana CD, a bike with a throttle. She can now go cycling with us. Just so you know, the Helix is full of 10' wide cycle paths. You can NOT take a scooter or moped on them.

Maybe you think she should stay at home?

There are lots of places where mopeds and scooters can go. There are also lots of places where mobility scooters can go so don't use your highly individual circumstance to make the case for throttles without explaining to me how the rest of Europe manages with regulations that don't suit you.

Your wife is not the only disabled cyclist around and there's quite a number, including myself, round my neck of the woods who manage perfectly well on bikes without throttles. I know of loads of ex-military on prosthetics who are riding bikes, swimming, dancing and running, not all at the same time, of course! The ones I'm thinking of are riding pushbikes but I don't want to get into different degrees of disablement. Let's just say I don't buy the argument for throttles simply based on the odd scenario you describe.

One of the problems with this ridiculous throttle business is the suggestion that we Brits know much better than our European neighbours what EAPC legislation should be. That's much the same as Cameron's posturing over the recent election of Juncker as the new European Commission president. Either we are in this European 'club' or we are not. Sitting on the sidelines arguing against pieces of legislation we don't particularly like while the rest of Europe advances is just the behaviour of spoilt children.

Another throttle problem is that they are popular with the obese who, in many cases, are simply too lazy to make any pedalling effort. Those same people tend to also champion the case for illegal motors as they need extra power to get up hills....no surprise there!

Tom

 

[shemozzle999]

There are lots of places where mopeds and scooters can go. There are also lots of places where mobility scooters can go so don't use your highly individual circumstance to make the case for throttles without explaining to me how the rest of Europe manages with regulations that don't suit you.

Your wife is not the only disabled cyclist around and there's quite a number, including myself, round my neck of the woods who manage perfectly well on bikes without throttles. I know of loads of ex-military on prosthetics who are riding bikes, swimming, dancing and running, not all at the same time, of course! The ones I'm thinking of are riding pushbikes but I don't want to get into different degrees of disablement. Let's just say I don't buy the argument for throttles simply based on the odd scenario you describe.

One of the problems with this ridiculous throttle business is the suggestion that we Brits know much better than our European neighbours what EAPC legislation should be. That's much the same as Cameron's posturing over the recent election of Juncker as the new European Commission president. Either we are in this European 'club' or we are not. Sitting on the sidelines arguing against pieces of legislation we don't particularly like while the rest of Europe advances is just the behaviour of spoilt children.

Another throttle problem is that they are popular with the obese who, in many cases, are simply too lazy to make any pedalling effort. Those same people tend to also champion the case for illegal motors as they need extra power to get up hills....no surprise there!

Tom

Purely based your own perception unless you can back those statements up with facts and figures.

As an aside, we were signed up to the EEC without a vote - the vote to stay in came later - I shall vote against if repeated, as I did the first time round.

 

[Jimod]

There are lots of places where mopeds and scooters can go. There are also lots of places where mobility scooters can go so don't use your highly individual circumstance to make the case for throttles without explaining to me how the rest of Europe manages with regulations that don't suit you.

Your wife is not the only disabled cyclist around and there's quite a number, including myself, round my neck of the woods who manage perfectly well on bikes without throttles. I know of loads of ex-military on prosthetics who are riding bikes, swimming, dancing and running, not all at the same time, of course! The ones I'm thinking of are riding pushbikes but I don't want to get into different degrees of disablement. Let's just say I don't buy the argument for throttles simply based on the odd scenario you describe.

One of the problems with this ridiculous throttle business is the suggestion that we Brits know much better than our European neighbours what EAPC legislation should be. That's much the same as Cameron's posturing over the recent election of Juncker as the new European Commission president. Either we are in this European 'club' or we are not. Sitting on the sidelines arguing against pieces of legislation we don't particularly like while the rest of Europe advances is just the behaviour of spoilt children.

Another throttle problem is that they are popular with the obese who, in many cases, are simply too lazy to make any pedalling effort. Those same people tend to also champion the case for illegal motors as they need extra power to get up hills....no surprise there!

Tom

All I can say to that is.. FFS.

 

[oldtom]

Purely based your own perception unless you can back those statements up with facts and figures.

As an aside, we where signed up to the EEC without a vote - the vote to stay in came later - I shall vote against if repeated, as I did the first time round.

I don't understand your point unless you are telling me that there are not lots of places where mopeds and scooters can go.

Neither do I understand your aside but that's not important as your politics are of no interest to me whatsoever.

Tom