Torque or speed sensor - preferences?

[enndee]

I've been riding my Typhoon around town and find with it speed sensor power activation that I feel I'm going to ram the cars in front when we start off from the traffic lights (the wheels on this bike make me feel I could probably ride over them ) and I end up using my brakes a lot to cut the power. Was wondering about torque sensors, why the aren't fitted to more bikes and what peoples experiences were with them.

 

[alex_h]

Personally I'm not into torque sensors. Those always force you to pedal more and more if you want to have assist. Speed sensor always gives power and the amount of power you easily choose by selecting right level of pedal assit so gotta full control.

 

[hoppy]

Personally I'm not into torque sensors. Those always force you to pedal more and more if you want to have assist. Speed sensor always gives power and the amount of power you easily choose by selecting right level of pedal assit so gotta full control.

Give me a throttle every time; much the finest power control.

 

[oldtom]

I ride EAPCs of each persuasion and my preference is for the torque sensor. It replicates real cycling better in my opinion, many speed sensor types making the bike feel more like a moped.

Tom

 

[Jimod]

I've never had a torque sensor. Both my Typhoon and my Tourer have simple pedal sensors. The Typhoon does indeed accelerate quite quickly but if I'm ever in slow moving traffic I just stick the power down to level 2 or 3. Living, as I do, in the hills, I find the simple pedal sensor a God send when I reach the top of a long climb. I can then relax and turn the pedals slowly and the bike will carry me along nicely.

 

[Artstu]

Do a lot of these bikes that claim to have a torque sensor actually only have a simple pedal sensor? or is that what they call a speed sensor?

 

[Jimod]

It's me that called it a pedal sensor. I turn the pedals VERY slowly and the motor comes on at full power. No effort needed. It's great when you're tired.

 

[Artstu]

It's me that called it a pedal sensor. I turn the pedals VERY slowly and the motor comes on at full power. No effort needed. It's great when you're tired.

Is that the little disc with magnets fitted to a standard bottom bracket? in which case it is only a pedal speed sensor.

 

[Jimod]

Is that the little disc with magnets fitted to a standard bottom bracket? in which case it is only a pedal speed sensor.

Yes, that's what I said. When you're tired it's great.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's not just the type of sensor that affects the behaviour on start up. You have to look more at the controller. It's what it does with the signal that counts. There's now the S series controllers from BMSBattery that have "torque simulation" (current control). There's some controllers that have torque sensors that work just like a switch.

I prefer speed control because it gives more power automatically when you slow down up hills. With torque control, you have to keep adjusting the power levels.. They're all different and have different good and bad points.

 

[Kudoscycles]

With the speed sensor it is important to use the PAS selector to avoid using max power pulling away when not necessary. However there can be situations when rapid acceleration can be a lifesaver (roundabouts!).
I do have customers who put the PAS on max and it stays there,that is very wasteful on range and also results in the progress being very staccato,constantly on/off the brakes.
Try to determine the traffic,terrain and select a power mode to suit. Even on my Kudos Secret bike I am often changing from high to mid power,in the end it becomes second nature to select the right power for the conditions,in highly pedestrianised areas I tend to use low power or non assisted.
KudosDave

 

[Jimod]

On the Kudos Tourer I'll be in power level 5 95% of the time. On the Typhoon I'm in level 3, 4 or 5 depending on the situation. Today I even did a few miles in level 0 on the Typhoon. I like the fact that simply turning the pedals brings in whatever power level I've chosen.

 

[Geebee]

With the speed sensor it is important to use the PAS selector to avoid using max power pulling away when not necessary. However there can be situations when rapid acceleration can be a lifesaver (roundabouts!).
I do have customers who put the PAS on max and it stays there,that is very wasteful on range and also results in the progress being very staccato,constantly on/off the brakes.
Try to determine the traffic,terrain and select a power mode to suit. Even on my Kudos Secret bike I am often changing from high to mid power,in the end it becomes second nature to select the right power for the conditions,in highly pedestrianised areas I tend to use low power or non assisted.
KudosDave

Leaving a CD in max PAS does not cause high power consumption or 99% of the time the surging and brake issue as in 1st it will only surge to ~8 kph in my case and you just shift to match the speed of the traffic, easy, as it is just like riding a normal bike.
The surge and brake issue was an annoyance to me when testing a higher powered hub.

 

[trex]

you also have bikes with both torque sensor and rotational sensor where the torque sensor acts like a throttle.

 

[shemozzle999]

There is also a third sensor - the throttle, possibly the most intuitive sensor available.

Controlled by instant rider feedback which can take into account the well being of the rider in realtime.

It comes in two types twist and thumb.

Mainly falling into two types of usage.

The first being motorbike mode or twist and go favored by riders that have difficultly pedaling but not approved by our European cousins and purist cyclists (a view that tends to change when getting older).

The second is selective use by able bodied riders, only being applied when assistance is required i.e. hill climbing etc. - generally leads to greater battery range due to intermittent use.

Another advantage is the safe delivery of power in crowded low speed situations.

 

[Jonah]

I have bikes with all three types and 90% of the time I prefer torque sensor for a more natural cycle feel. I do find the throttle handy for city centre riding. Personally I'm not that keen on pedal sensors, but each to their own.

 

[Geebee]

I have not ridden a torque sensor bike but when healthy it would have been my number one choice due to multiplying input.
PAS is the next in my opion as it comes close to riding a bike especially if coupled with a crank drive.
Throttle is a poor a long long last IMO, it is annoying and the least like riding a bike.
The throttle is something I dont like even though health wise I am probably as close as you can get to not been able to ride even with assist, and still able to do it..... sometimes

To each his own.

 

[Artstu]

Torque sensor bikes like the Bosch are brilliant, the most like a normal bicycle, and always millisecond responses to what you do.

I'm with you on the throttle opinion Geebee.

 

[Geebee]

I've been riding my Typhoon around town and find with it speed sensor power activation that I feel I'm going to ram the cars in front when we start off from the traffic lights (the wheels on this bike make me feel I could probably ride over them ) and I end up using my brakes a lot to cut the power. Was wondering about torque sensors, why the aren't fitted to more bikes and what peoples experiences were with them.

Just remebered due to riding my folder today, there is a PAS out there that has 3 or 4 different speeds dependent upon pedal speed, ie you turn the pedals slowly and the bike will assist at walking pace, as you spin faster the motor speeds up as well, it tops out at about 40 rpm so full assist even up hill but no surges off the line.
The problem is I have never seen one other than the one in my folder which is a Beat Bike clone with a different controller.

 

[jackhandy]

Ho-hum...
Yet another thread with no hope of depolarising opinions
But I'll add my two-penn'orth:

Recently, my mate from down west & I wobbled off over to Lanhydrock for a bumble round the blue trails.
He has a shiny new Cube 29er with the performance Bosch system & I was on the Mamba 29er with Ezee kit.

On the 18-mile return ride along (very) minor roads, I totally blew him away on every uphill section, using level 3 assist (to15mph) & he was easily as quick as me on the occasional flat sections when I was using level 2 (assist to 11mph).

Can't comment on relative performance on the singletrack, as I seemed to lose contact with him quite quickly
However, he was right behind me on the fast downhill sections of the Timber Trail; until we encountered horseflies, to which he's allergic, and I had trouble keeping in contact with him on the loong uphill drag back to the cafe!

Discussion over coffee suggested he was using quite low levels of assist Most of the time & fiddling about a lot, as it's a new bike, whereas I bung mine in level 2 & leave it there, using gears 4&5 only.

10 minutes for the 2-mile & 4+ for the 1-mile suggest about 12mph, meaning I had some level of assist most of the way round on the bits where I was pedalling.

I would suggest the Bosch system only rewards effort: What you put in is returned 2.75 times (max.) You only have respite on easy flat & downhill, but the bike is light, agile & easy to pedal unassisted.

The Ezee hub drive adds its power to mine as my speed decreases; ie going uphill: This is where I need assist & feels totally natural to me, just the hills decrease in severity. The kit feels heavier & not so well balanced, but in no way moped-like. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to ride the Cornish Alps to gain a balanced view.

Would I want a torque-based system? No thanks: My bike has become my main form of local (20 miles or less) transport - I don't regard it as sport: If I did, I'd get a "proper" bike & stop cheating.