Nice looking bike jeremy it looks very comfortable,is it easy to ride when stopping and starting in traffic.
TongXin (a.k.a. Nano) motor project
- Thread starter Jeremy
- Start date
Without power there is definitely a knack in starting and stopping. Unlike a conventional bike you can't scoot off to start, so you have to make sure that the bike's in a low gear before you stop and get set to go with the front brake on and your "best" foot on the pedals ready for a hefty push. Once you get the knack it's OK, just push hard and let go of the brake, whilst picking up your foot and getting it onto the other pedal.
With the motor, starting seems much simpler. I did a hill start without pedalling this afternoon and it was a bit of a revelation - normally such antics lead to a bout of instant falling over sideways................
The bike is extremely comfortable, but uses very different muscles to a conventional bike. The main plus point for me is that I don't get back ache from riding it, neither do my wrists take a beating. Your legs do tend to do a bit more work though, because it's easy to push hard, with your back so well-supported, which can lead to using a greater pedal force than you would normally.
The 'bent is intrinsically a fair bit faster than an upright, both from the lower drag and the higher pedal force that can be applied. The secret is to try and consciously avoid the temptation to hang on to too tall a gear and remember to keep the cadence up, otherwise your thighs will certainly let you know that you've been pushing it a bit.
Stability is different to an upright, as being lower down makes it inherently less stable and harder to maintain balance. This is something you quickly get used to though and doesn't trouble me at all now. If you fall off, then it's always sideways on to your backside - undignified, perhaps, but with a lower probability of damaging one's head.
I'd find it hard to go back to a conventional bike now, although my old tourer is sat in the shed as a standby.
Jeremy
With the motor, starting seems much simpler. I did a hill start without pedalling this afternoon and it was a bit of a revelation - normally such antics lead to a bout of instant falling over sideways................
The bike is extremely comfortable, but uses very different muscles to a conventional bike. The main plus point for me is that I don't get back ache from riding it, neither do my wrists take a beating. Your legs do tend to do a bit more work though, because it's easy to push hard, with your back so well-supported, which can lead to using a greater pedal force than you would normally.
The 'bent is intrinsically a fair bit faster than an upright, both from the lower drag and the higher pedal force that can be applied. The secret is to try and consciously avoid the temptation to hang on to too tall a gear and remember to keep the cadence up, otherwise your thighs will certainly let you know that you've been pushing it a bit.
Stability is different to an upright, as being lower down makes it inherently less stable and harder to maintain balance. This is something you quickly get used to though and doesn't trouble me at all now. If you fall off, then it's always sideways on to your backside - undignified, perhaps, but with a lower probability of damaging one's head.
I'd find it hard to go back to a conventional bike now, although my old tourer is sat in the shed as a standby.
Jeremy
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I want to do the same with our bikes like Jeremy did but I want to know some things before ordering. Do you know:
Thanks for the help.
- Does the Tongxin fit a standard disk brake? I didn't find any on the web but Diana tells me the do
confused: ) - If you look at there diagram they have a speed sensor and a function switch as a option connected to the controller. Do you know the volt on this group and does anyone know about a speedsensor.
- There should be 3 ways to operate (1.Throttle only, 2 Throttle and PAS and PAS with sensor only?) but how and how to change from one to the other? Just plug in and out? You only use the throttle don't you?
Thanks for the help.
The Tongxin doesn't have any facility to fit a disc brake, as far as I can see. It might be possible to machine up an adaptor that bolts to the motor side plate, but space might be a problem, I have no doubt that a fairly thin brake caliper would be needed.
The diagram you have posted seems quite different to the 36V, 15A Tongxin controller that I have. Mine has three motor wires, three throttle wires, two power wires and two brake cut out wires. There are no "speed sensor wires". If a pedelec unit is fitted, then this is wired instead of the throttle on the controller I have.
It's a real challenge trying to get to grips with the language problem with these Chinese parts. One or two of the vendors speak/write good English, but the majority seem to rely on electronic translation. I believe that Diana Lin from Tongxin does speak good English, but the technical staff there don't, which makes it difficult for her!
As an aside, I took the plunge and purchased a 36V 10Ah LiFePO4 battery today. The total cost, including charger, battery management system and shipping to the UK, was just over £150. Time will tell as to whether or not it is a good purchase, but the price seems reasonable enough to be worth taking the risk. The seller, Li Ping, seems fair and has been very helpful, plus several others on the Endless Sphere forum have purchased from him and found the packs to perform well.
I will post an update with a full performance report as soon as I have the new pack fitted. I believe that I can complete the "stealth" look by fitting these LiFePO4 cells under the seat, in a small composite case, rather than rely on having them in a pannier.
Jeremy
The diagram you have posted seems quite different to the 36V, 15A Tongxin controller that I have. Mine has three motor wires, three throttle wires, two power wires and two brake cut out wires. There are no "speed sensor wires". If a pedelec unit is fitted, then this is wired instead of the throttle on the controller I have.
It's a real challenge trying to get to grips with the language problem with these Chinese parts. One or two of the vendors speak/write good English, but the majority seem to rely on electronic translation. I believe that Diana Lin from Tongxin does speak good English, but the technical staff there don't, which makes it difficult for her!
As an aside, I took the plunge and purchased a 36V 10Ah LiFePO4 battery today. The total cost, including charger, battery management system and shipping to the UK, was just over £150. Time will tell as to whether or not it is a good purchase, but the price seems reasonable enough to be worth taking the risk. The seller, Li Ping, seems fair and has been very helpful, plus several others on the Endless Sphere forum have purchased from him and found the packs to perform well.
I will post an update with a full performance report as soon as I have the new pack fitted. I believe that I can complete the "stealth" look by fitting these LiFePO4 cells under the seat, in a small composite case, rather than rely on having them in a pannier.
Jeremy
Great price Jeremy, though not so uncommon in the Far East. If it turns out to be top quality, it's about one third of the price here for a top 36 volt 10Ah, without P & P.
Let us know how much any duties add if applied at this end.
.
It's a good price IF the cells are OK. I've been watching the debate on Endless Sphere on these cells for the past two or three months, and so far no one has had a major problem with them, despite the majority of purchasers running them very hard (30 to 40 amp continuous discharge, for example).
This is very much a "kit" battery, as it's really just 24 5Ah pouch cells taped together with a stuck on BMS PCB, plus a fairly basic LiFePO4 low rate (2A) charger. The cells will need rebuilding into a case to be safely usable on any bike, I think. Some of the cases created by the Endless Sphere users have been quite creative, including one made from about 5/8" thick Lexan!
The battery configuration and ratings are:
24 cells, 3.2V nominal voltage, connected as 12 paralleled pairs in series to give 38.4 volts nominal.
Capacity: 10Ah
Normal continuous discharge current: 20 amps
Maximum discharge current: 40 amps
Maximum charge current: 5 amps
Maximum charge voltage: 46 volts
Dimensions: 150mm x 110mm x 150mm (including BMS)
Weight: 3.5kg
Charge/discharge cycle life: ~1000 cycles
I will be running this battery at 15 amps maximum, well within it's ratings. The Endless Sphere users are reporting that the real usable Ah capacity, as measured with a Cycle Analyst or Watts Up, is slightly greater than, or equal to, the rated capacity.
It's very much an experiment, like the rest of this bike, so I shall be pleasantly surprised if it performs OK.
I believe that the 10Ah base cell pairs inside this battery pack are actually about 135mm tall x 10mm thick x 100mm wide, in case anyone wants to see if they will fit in another case. The connections are on the top, so on the 135mm tall end and add another 10mm or so to the effective size. I shall confirm the cell size, and post some photos, once my pack arrives.
Jeremy
This is very much a "kit" battery, as it's really just 24 5Ah pouch cells taped together with a stuck on BMS PCB, plus a fairly basic LiFePO4 low rate (2A) charger. The cells will need rebuilding into a case to be safely usable on any bike, I think. Some of the cases created by the Endless Sphere users have been quite creative, including one made from about 5/8" thick Lexan!
The battery configuration and ratings are:
24 cells, 3.2V nominal voltage, connected as 12 paralleled pairs in series to give 38.4 volts nominal.
Capacity: 10Ah
Normal continuous discharge current: 20 amps
Maximum discharge current: 40 amps
Maximum charge current: 5 amps
Maximum charge voltage: 46 volts
Dimensions: 150mm x 110mm x 150mm (including BMS)
Weight: 3.5kg
Charge/discharge cycle life: ~1000 cycles
I will be running this battery at 15 amps maximum, well within it's ratings. The Endless Sphere users are reporting that the real usable Ah capacity, as measured with a Cycle Analyst or Watts Up, is slightly greater than, or equal to, the rated capacity.
It's very much an experiment, like the rest of this bike, so I shall be pleasantly surprised if it performs OK.
I believe that the 10Ah base cell pairs inside this battery pack are actually about 135mm tall x 10mm thick x 100mm wide, in case anyone wants to see if they will fit in another case. The connections are on the top, so on the 135mm tall end and add another 10mm or so to the effective size. I shall confirm the cell size, and post some photos, once my pack arrives.
Jeremy
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The 36V 10Ah battery pack I ordered from Li Ping in China last week arrived today, with no extra charges for tax, duty etc.
Below are some photos I've just taken of the pack as it arrived and after I'd stripped away some of the covering. I am fitting these cells into a composite case that I made over the weekend, so need to reconfigure them to hide in the space under the seat of my 'bent.
Overall, the quality of manufacture seems very good, nice clean soldered joints and a well-made battery management system circuit board, with what looks to be a microcontroller monitoring/adjusting the cell balance and voltage. The BMS is the thing in the yellow sleeve in the pictures.
Battery and charger, as unpacked from the box.
Battery and BMS - side view of cells (this is a 12S 2P pack)
Top view of battery
The battery and BMS complete weighs 3.4kg. The individual cells are actually 135mm x 100mm x 4mm, with two cells being paralleled for each effective cell.
As soon as I have it reconfigured to fit the new case I shall post some more pictures.
Jeremy
Below are some photos I've just taken of the pack as it arrived and after I'd stripped away some of the covering. I am fitting these cells into a composite case that I made over the weekend, so need to reconfigure them to hide in the space under the seat of my 'bent.
Overall, the quality of manufacture seems very good, nice clean soldered joints and a well-made battery management system circuit board, with what looks to be a microcontroller monitoring/adjusting the cell balance and voltage. The BMS is the thing in the yellow sleeve in the pictures.
Battery and charger, as unpacked from the box.
Battery and BMS - side view of cells (this is a 12S 2P pack)
Top view of battery
The battery and BMS complete weighs 3.4kg. The individual cells are actually 135mm x 100mm x 4mm, with two cells being paralleled for each effective cell.
As soon as I have it reconfigured to fit the new case I shall post some more pictures.
Jeremy
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Jeremy,
The battery looks great. I am really tempted to order one but shall probably wait to see how you get on with yours.
John
The battery looks great. I am really tempted to order one but shall probably wait to see how you get on with yours.
John
Here's one of my three Tongxin motors I ordered a couple of weeks ago.
The controller is my own homebuilt design with "Smooth Ride Technology".
As soon as I have mounted the motor into my 28" wheel I'll report my
experience of this little beast.
I hope to reach at least 20mph with some effort and perhaps 22mph
with some more effort a good day.
The 36V 8.8A battery pack is made from 120 pcs of 2.1Amp AA NiMH cells
and the weight of the pack is pretty light at 3.5kg.
I have figured out a way to build pack from standard AA cells that can be
bought at very cheap prices. These cells have a very high power density.
The charger is a little bit complex but this is no problem as I have designed
and built it myself. I'll post a pic on the battpack later on.
The controller is my own homebuilt design with "Smooth Ride Technology".
As soon as I have mounted the motor into my 28" wheel I'll report my
experience of this little beast.
I hope to reach at least 20mph with some effort and perhaps 22mph
with some more effort a good day.
The 36V 8.8A battery pack is made from 120 pcs of 2.1Amp AA NiMH cells
and the weight of the pack is pretty light at 3.5kg.
I have figured out a way to build pack from standard AA cells that can be
bought at very cheap prices. These cells have a very high power density.
The charger is a little bit complex but this is no problem as I have designed
and built it myself. I'll post a pic on the battpack later on.
Attachments
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Hi Frederic.
I ordered them directly from China by email exchange with Diana Lin.
She was nice and sent me a spread sheet with their price list.
You can reach her at xinyue_china-at-hotmail-dot-com
Once I knew which motors I wanted I got an Proforma Invoice on
my order from Diana. The Invoice showed me their bank account number and
I transfered the amount and a little extra to be sure of complete payment.
Once Diana received the payment she notified me by email.
The hall equipped motors was 400RMB each, and the sensorless was 430RMB.
I used TNT budget shipping to Sweden. It cost 1170RMB for all three motors.
But unfortunately I had to pay customs duty and VAT on the motors.
I asked Diana to ship them as samples at low value but it didn't fool
the customs.
Shipment was OK, about 3 weeks, but perhaps just one week in reality.
The chinese newyear happened just after I had ordered the motors.
I hope this helps you get some Tongxin motors.
I ordered them directly from China by email exchange with Diana Lin.
She was nice and sent me a spread sheet with their price list.
You can reach her at xinyue_china-at-hotmail-dot-com
Once I knew which motors I wanted I got an Proforma Invoice on
my order from Diana. The Invoice showed me their bank account number and
I transfered the amount and a little extra to be sure of complete payment.
Once Diana received the payment she notified me by email.
The hall equipped motors was 400RMB each, and the sensorless was 430RMB.
I used TNT budget shipping to Sweden. It cost 1170RMB for all three motors.
But unfortunately I had to pay customs duty and VAT on the motors.
I asked Diana to ship them as samples at low value but it didn't fool
the customs.
Shipment was OK, about 3 weeks, but perhaps just one week in reality.
The chinese newyear happened just after I had ordered the motors.
I hope this helps you get some Tongxin motors.
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Here's an update showing the new battery pack installed. I split the battery into two and reconfigured it to fit in the space under the seat. This was easy enough to do. I made a composite box, from epoxy/glass, using the "lost foam moulding" technique, which worked fairly well. Here's a picture of the battery ready to fit to the bike:
The discharge lead is the one fitted with the Anderson connector, the round connector is the charging connection.
I fitted the battery under the seat, using alloy brackets. It just fitted neatly in the space between the seat stiffening rails.
The finished bike, complete with the new battery, is reasonably stealthy and hopefully doesn't look too obviously as if it has electric assist. The bike is now about 6.5kg heavier than it was before the modification, which doesn't seem too bad.
Performance is pretty good, it gives me a reasonable amount of hill climb assistance, but all power assist has stopped by about 20mph, as far as I can tell. My normal cruise speed on the flat is around 20 - 22mph in my present (rather unfit!) condition, so much of the time the motor isn't being used much. I can tell when the motor power is starting to fall off, as the current goes down on the meter as speed increases, rather than increasing as might be expected.
I haven't tested the range yet, but feel sure that it will be more than 20 miles with pedal assistance, perhaps much more. The LiFePO4 battery is very good, the voltage drop under load is small, no more than 2V even under high loads. So far I've not been able to run it down, but once I start the regular commute to work I'll no doubt find out how many days it will go before it needs charging.
Jeremy
The discharge lead is the one fitted with the Anderson connector, the round connector is the charging connection.
I fitted the battery under the seat, using alloy brackets. It just fitted neatly in the space between the seat stiffening rails.
The finished bike, complete with the new battery, is reasonably stealthy and hopefully doesn't look too obviously as if it has electric assist. The bike is now about 6.5kg heavier than it was before the modification, which doesn't seem too bad.
Performance is pretty good, it gives me a reasonable amount of hill climb assistance, but all power assist has stopped by about 20mph, as far as I can tell. My normal cruise speed on the flat is around 20 - 22mph in my present (rather unfit!) condition, so much of the time the motor isn't being used much. I can tell when the motor power is starting to fall off, as the current goes down on the meter as speed increases, rather than increasing as might be expected.
I haven't tested the range yet, but feel sure that it will be more than 20 miles with pedal assistance, perhaps much more. The LiFePO4 battery is very good, the voltage drop under load is small, no more than 2V even under high loads. So far I've not been able to run it down, but once I start the regular commute to work I'll no doubt find out how many days it will go before it needs charging.
Jeremy
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Many thanks for the compliments, I too hope that it continues to work reliably!
I am still trying to get hold of another controller or two as spares, as I have pretty much made up my mind to strip one, upgrade the FETs and rebuild it into a case with better heat dissipating properties. Unfortunately I still haven't had a reply from Diana Lin at TongXin.
Jeremy
I am still trying to get hold of another controller or two as spares, as I have pretty much made up my mind to strip one, upgrade the FETs and rebuild it into a case with better heat dissipating properties. Unfortunately I still haven't had a reply from Diana Lin at TongXin.
Jeremy
Li Ping batteries from China on eBay: Bidding scam???
Jeremy thanks for the referral to Li Ping I have looked on ebay ping ping 227 and have sent him an email asking him to quote for the battery I want, however I looked through the bidding history for his batteries - including your own bids and it would appear that there may be some phantom bidders.
Nearly every battery that he auctions recieves bids, that never win, from bidders with names that are always in the fromat ?**?. The item you bid on had 2 other bidders who have bid on other batteries but never win any, in spite of generally ending their bids about $5 below the final price. If you try and look at these bidders purchase history there isnt any even though they have star ratings.
Very suspicious or perhaps there is an honest explanation. I have suggested to pingping 227 that he use Buy it Now pricing if he wants me to bid.
Francis
Jeremy thanks for the referral to Li Ping I have looked on ebay ping ping 227 and have sent him an email asking him to quote for the battery I want, however I looked through the bidding history for his batteries - including your own bids and it would appear that there may be some phantom bidders.
Nearly every battery that he auctions recieves bids, that never win, from bidders with names that are always in the fromat ?**?. The item you bid on had 2 other bidders who have bid on other batteries but never win any, in spite of generally ending their bids about $5 below the final price. If you try and look at these bidders purchase history there isnt any even though they have star ratings.
Very suspicious or perhaps there is an honest explanation. I have suggested to pingping 227 that he use Buy it Now pricing if he wants me to bid.
Francis
NOT a Scam
eBay has changed how bid history information is displayed for higher-priced items. To help keep the eBay community safe, enhance bidder privacy, and protect the members from fraudulent emails, only you (ie the buyer) and the seller of the item can view User ID in bid history. Other members will see anonymous names
Jeremy Love the look of the Bent, Nice job on the electrics and batteries.
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M
mk1
Guest
Nice work Jeremy, the Bent looks great.
I have also tried to contact Tongxin about ordering a couple of hub motors, no reply to my email yet either.
I have also tried to contact Tongxin about ordering a couple of hub motors, no reply to my email yet either.
M
mk1
Guest
I have read quite a few comments from people who have dealt with Li Ping and by all accounts he seems a very helpful and honest seller.
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