The New 2012 Xipi

[aeschylus]

Blimey, everytime I start a thread it seems to end in a mass difference of opinion

 

[tillson]

Firstly may I state that I have never seen a Xipi bike in the flesh much less ridden one. I have never met Frank at Xipi or spoken with him.

He also spends much time providing valuable advice to those who have no interest in purhcasing from him and often reccomends other suppliers

It is not illegal to sell them and he does nothing wrong. Its all about the buyers and find the comments from Kudos misguided and worrying. I had been seriously considering puchasing from them but woulkdnt dream of it after this

Just to put the other side of the argument, it could be argued that Kudos have adopted an ethical sales strategy in that they only sell legal bikes. In doing this and in the interests of the long term future of ebikes as we currently know them, they have probably denied themselves a few extra sales. A commendable course of action and one which any potential purchaser would be wise to factor into their buying decision.

Personally, I don't think it is very clever to strap a load of cheap Chinese junk to a mediocre bike and to then make up for the shortcomings in such a contraption by boosting the power to excess. A well engineered bike which exploits technology within the constraints of current legislation is a much more praiseworthy and impressive creation.

 

[Mike63]

You and Mike aren't related, are you???

Fordulike and vectra.....If you wish to receive concise, well worded, arguementative comment in response then you must stop posting childish, inane and completely pointless posts.

.....Mike

 

[amigafan2003]

Blimey, everytime I start a thread it seems to end in a mass difference of opinion

Variety is the spice of life

Personally I love these threads.

People can tootle around on their under powered, low speed bikes and take an age to get to work - I don't care - if that's what they want from an ebike then fine.

I'll happily continue getting to work quicker on my ebike than I can drive there in the car, happy and secure in the knowledge there is pretty much zero chance of anyone being able to stop me. If it really was a big issue for the government, then surely I'd have been stopped now? Especially the two coppers on bikes that I overtook on the way home last week, one of them calling over "wish I had a battery" as I went past whilst he was puffing into a headwind

 

[jazper53]

I think the law is at fault with double standards, most cars have the ability to break the national speed limit but you never hear of restricting engines etc, but because e-bikes has no vested interest to lobby on there behalf, they become victims of the over-regulators thats sadly infest our NANNY STATE !

 

[indalo]

Fordulike and vectra.....If you wish to receive concise, well worded, arguementative comment in response then you must stop posting childish, inane and completely pointless posts.

.....Mike

Mike, when you eventually tire of childish, inane comment from those few, amoral members of this otherwise decent forum, I suggest you make use of the ignore facility. Forum life is a much more agreeable experience when you don't have to read the opinions and ignorant drivel promulgated by those who boast about lawbreaking and their pathetic attempts to justify their behaviour.

It works for me and I'd recommend to all who find my opinions disagreeable that they do likewise.

Indalo

 

[GaRRy]

I think the law is at fault with double standards, most cars have the ability to break the national speed limit but you never hear of restricting engines etc, but because e-bikes has no vested interest to lobby on there behalf, they become victims of the over-regulators thats sadly infest our NANNY STATE !

Just wait till you come off, or a car pulls out in front of you as you travel at 30 mph. I have more than my fair share of spills on a motorbike at those speeds and if your lucky you limp away and thats with leathers and a good helmet. Mopeds are restricted to 30 mph and to think that ebikes should be allowed to go as fast or faster is a disaster waiting to happen

 

[jazper53]

Just wait till you come off, or a car pulls out in front of you as you travel at 30 mph. I have more than my fair share of spills on a motorbike at those speeds and if your lucky you limp away and thats with leathers and a good helmet. Mopeds are restricted to 30 mph and to think that ebikes should be allowed to go as fast or faster is a disaster waiting to happen

The fact is a lot of fit cyclist can reach those speeds without the benefit of electrical assistance so why should that be any difference. I think there should be speed limits for bikes on roads, and lower speed limits for cycle lanes. There should be the same trust shown, that is given to motorist, to observe the law ,and penallties for those that don't it will make the law consistent

 

[eddieo]

There is no trust!.......motorists need training, a license, insurance, tax and number plates!

 

[flecc]

I think the law is at fault with double standards, most cars have the ability to break the national speed limit but you never hear of restricting engines etc, but because e-bikes has no vested interest to lobby on there behalf, they become victims of the over-regulators thats sadly infest our NANNY STATE !

This is completely untrue as I so often point out. Cars are not restricted since their drivers are trained and tested before being able to use them. In addition they have to have insurance to protect third parties and they are easily traceable in the event of anything going wrong.

E-bikes can be ridden by anyone without any training or test of competence, they usually have no third party insurance protection and they are untraceable. Therefore the e-bike has to be controlled to safe bicycle type levels in the absence of the public safeguards that motor vehicles have.

 

[amigafan2003]

This is completely untrue as I so often point out. Cars are not restricted since their drivers are trained and tested before being able to use them. In addition they have to have insurance to protect third parties and they are easily traceable in the event of anything going wrong.

E-bikes can be ridden by anyone without any training or test of competence, they usually have no third party insurance protection and they are untraceable. Therefore the e-bike has to be controlled to safe bicycle type levels in the absence of the public safeguards that motor vehicles have.

I concur Flecc actually believe it or not.

I'd love to see an S-class (which my bike is effectively) in this country and I'd happily display a registration plate and have insurance and all the requirements that go with it. My needs are for an s-class vehicle - not a 15mph ebike and not a motorbike - I need something in between - so I choose to ride that something in between - it's just a shame we don't have the legislation to support that requirement.

 

[flecc]

I agree Amigafan, I wish our governments were more open minded to variations in the way that the Germans and Swiss are. It makes sense to accommodate as many requirements as possible since that automatically minimises breaches of the law.

People sometimes wonder at how law abiding Germans are, but this is precisely why, their laws are more likely to accommodate individual needs.

 

[GaRRy]

I'd love to see an S-class (which my bike is effectively) in this country and I'd happily display a registration plate and have insurance and all the requirements that go with it. My needs are for an s-class vehicle - not a 15mph ebike and not a motorbike - I need something in between - so I choose to ride that something in between - it's just a shame we don't have the legislation to support that requirement.

So what's wrong with a moped ? Especially as one is almost certainly cheaper ?

As I see it if they introduce a s-class it will still have to be speed restricted to less than 30mph otherwise it would just be another form of moped but without the benefits of better tyres/brakes etc. have no problem with one existing but just see how it fits in.

Just wondering

 

[GaRRy]

The fact is a lot of fit cyclist can reach those speeds without the benefit of electrical assistance so why should that be any difference. I think there should be speed limits for bikes on roads, and lower speed limits for cycle lanes. There should be the same trust shown, that is given to motorist, to observe the law ,and penallties for those that don't it will make the law consistent

Not many cyclists can keep up sustained speeds of 30 mph for any distance. They are the exception rather than the norm. I'm certainly not anywhere near super fit, have a legal ebike and don't remember the last time some one came zooming past me on a bike.

As for the rest your solution seems to imply you want tests and licences etc for bikes as if have speed limits etc then need those as well as otherwise they would be meaningless.

 

[flecc]

So what's wrong with a moped ? Especially as one is almost certainly cheaper ?

As I see it if they introduce a s-class it will still have to be speed restricted to less than 30mph otherwise it would just be another form of moped but without the benefits of better tyres/brakes etc. have no problem with one existing but just see how it fits in.

Just wondering

Germany's S class bikes are limited to 40 kph (25 mph). They used to still be limited to 250 watts, but that has been increased to 500 watts. Most bikes compliant are 350 watts though in the interests of a good range. They have a number plate to allow traceability and basic insurance, but few of the usual vehicle restrictions like driving tests, "road tax" etc.

So they make a useful low bureaucracy class between pedelec and moped, while still retaining the enjoyment and exercise of cycling. Another big advantage is that the S class increases the scope for commuting over longer distances than is practical for 15 mph pedelecs.

 

[amigafan2003]

So what's wrong with a moped ? Especially as one is almost certainly cheaper ?

As I see it if they introduce a s-class it will still have to be speed restricted to less than 30mph otherwise it would just be another form of moped but without the benefits of better tyres/brakes etc. have no problem with one existing but just see how it fits in.

Just wondering

Because a moped doesn't suit my requirements.

1: I don't need to go 30mph.
2: I want to ride on cycle paths, not roads (I think I'd get stopped pretty sharpish for riding down blackpool prom on a moped).
3: Although I'm happy to pay a little for insurance, I don't want to pay the level that a moped requires.
4: I don't want to go through an MOT every year.
5: I don't want an ICE powered vehicle with the added maintenance that requires.

As I said - the machine I require is somewhere between a 100% legal ebike and a moped - a point that doesn't legally exist in this country - although if the Germans can manage to legislate for such a point I'm not sure whey we cant.


I know Flecc has already answered but I thought I'd elaborate a little in regards of my specific requirements.

 

[GaRRy]

Ok thanks for explaining and have to agree the S-Class seems a reasonable idea to legislate for.

Even so the Xipi does not fit S-class specifications and they are already claiming to be making a 38mph one.

 

[Kudoscycles]

There is a market for bespoke e-bikes,we occasionally have customers who's requirements are so special that they cannot be satisfied with a production bike. The Storck Raddar range has shown that there are customers who are prepared to pay top money for what they want. I don't know of a custom builder of such bikes in the UK,just an idea!!!!!!!
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[flecc]

There is a market for bespoke e-bikes,we occasionally have customers who's requirements are so special that they cannot be satisfied with a production bike. The Storck Raddar range has shown that there are customers who are prepared to pay top money for what they want. I don't know of a custom builder of such bikes in the UK,just an idea!!!!!!!
Dave
Kudoscycles

Kinetics in Glasgow custom builds to buyer specifications both normal and e-bikes. They will even have custom frames specifically made to exact requirements. Anyone with between £4,000 and £10,000 to spare can be suited.

 

[Mike63]

Mike, when you eventually tire of childish, inane comment from those few, amoral members of this otherwise decent forum, I suggest you make use of the ignore facility. Forum life is a much more agreeable experience when you don't have to read the opinions and ignorant drivel promulgated by those who boast about lawbreaking and their pathetic attempts to justify their behaviour.

It works for me and I'd recommend to all who find my opinions disagreeable that they do likewise.

Indalo

Cheers for that Indalo but it’d be easier just not to participate.
…the world is full of people who think that not agreeing with the law is justifiable reason for ignoring it and to hell with the consequences for other people.

“I got shafted out of my pension…enough reason to go and rob a building society”

When these people cannot come up with a valid argument they then resort to cheap childish insults

.....

Ahhhh.... camper van man, It all becomes crystal clear

...which explains exactly nothing.

All this is to be expected from people like these but you’ve got to question the mindset of a supposedly intelligent adult who thinks that …

"Do your parents know that you are out?"

Is a clever/funny and/or suitable comment in the thread.

….What do I care ? Let ‘em say and do what they want.
….they get the forum and the life they deserve.