The Electric Bike Industry-Boom or Bust?

[Bikerbob]

Perhaps the problem is that the term 'member' is slightly misleading in this context. 'Contributor' might be more accurate (as in contributes posts - not cash!). The suppliers of any make of bike can contribute to this forum in just the same way as any private individual who cares to join. It doesn't mean that other 'members' have any particular loyalty to them.

That said, even if a supplier has reacted well by sending a replacement promptly, I would think it reasonable for them to be expected to chase up their courier if there is a failure to deliver. They are better placed to do that than the customer.

 

[flecc]

According to 50cycles who did check further, the courier did deliver next day but there was nobody there to sign for the delivery. I do think the supplier responsibility ends there and I agree with Ian's sentiments.
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[Bikerbob]

According to 50cycles who did check further, the courier did deliver next day but there was nobody there to sign for the delivery. I do think the supplier responsibility ends there and I agree with Ian's sentiments.
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I assume 'Fat Girl' was made aware that there had been an attempt to deliver, in which case there is little more to be said. I was more concerned at her suggestion of bias. I'm sure that anyone regularly reading the advice given in these forums can be in no doubt that it is impartial.

 

[flecc]

I assume 'Fat Girl' was made aware that there had been an attempt to deliver, in which case there is little more to be said. I was more concerned at her suggestion of bias. I'm sure that anyone regularly reading the advice given in these forums can be in no doubt that it is impartial.

Yes Bob. 50cycles reported their actions in response to the charger failure in FatGirl's thread in the 50cycles clinic here.

and in response to hearing it hadn't arrived, reported the delivery attempt next day in the same thread here.

I would have been more than happy with such excellent service, and I cannot see how it could possibly have been bettered.
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[Fat Girl]

50cycles service can be bettered

Yes Bob. 50cycles reported their actions in response to the charger failure in FatGirl's thread in the 50cycles clinic here.

and in response to hearing it hadn't arrived, reported the delivery attempt next day in the same thread here.

I would have been more than happy with such excellent service, and I cannot see how it could possibly have been bettered.
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Flecc and Ian

I too, would have been more than happy with this service if thats what had happened. Unfortunately it didn't.

I was hoping to avoid a pedantic detailed account of this saga but here goes.....

Sunday - the battery charger failed. I posted here for advice then emailed 50cycles when Flecc kindly tried and exhausted all his options for fixing it.
Monday - I called 50cycles and spoke to Lloyd at 10.15am and explained the problem to him. I also purchased a 2nd charger. We discussed delivery and the postal strike and he VERY KINDLY AND CONSIDERATELY decided to send 2 tried and tested chargers to me to arrive next day by courier. I explained that we would both be at work. If no signature was required they could leave it in the recycle bin by the front door. He spoke to the delivery company while on the phone to me and they told him that would be no problem. I said thankyou to lloyd for his efforts and to get back to me if there were any problems. I didn't hear from him so I assumed all was well.
Tuesday - came and went but no charger arrived. However, there was a card from dhl through the door saying they had tried to deliver but no-one was in to sign! Furthermore, the delivery person had not written a parcel no. on the card so i could not re-arrange alternative delivery through the automated system they use by phone or on their website. No parcel number = no access to the system. I spoke to dhl customer services. I was told, no parcel number = no access to the system. They said 50cycles would have to contact dhl and rearrange delivery. Anyone who'se had to deal with this sort of problem knows how long i spent getting this far. A very long time.

Wednesday - I called 50cycles and told them what had happened and that they need to contact the delivery company to arrange delivery.

I spoke to James who told me that 50cycles is a bike shop not a delivery company, that it was my problem that no-one was in and the charger couldn't be delivered, that 50cycles have bent over backwards to get the chargers to me and it was my problem that the parcel couldn't be delivered!
And this despite me explaining that Lloyd had been told that it could be left in the recycle bin and he hadn't got back to me that it could not be.

I'm sure you'd have felt as angry and frustrated as I did had you been spoken to like this.

I think you all know what I expected. 50 cycles had the parcel no.and the contract with the delivery service. I had no evidence or proof that i owned the parcel as i had no parcel number!

Eventually, another employee took on to find out what had happened. Clearly, there had been a failure of communication between 50cycles and their delivery company. A man in their delivery company had told lloyd wrong information. I received an apology from James and we agred that the parcel would be sent to my work on thursday.
Thursday - came and went and no charger arrived. At 4pm i called 50 cycles to say it hadn't arrived yet, james knew it wasn't going to arrive that day and gave me the tel. no of their delivery company who told me their computer system was down and the change of delivery had not been sent to dhl. thats why it hadn't arrived! and no-one seemed to know if and when it would arrive.
Friday - my partners day off so she took over the shambolic situation. She called 50cycles and could barely get a word out before she was showered with profuse apologies for the absolute farce and at last, an acknowledgement from 50cycles that the problem stemmed from poor communication between 50 cycles and their delivery company.
She was told a 3rd charger was in the post being sent by next day service.
Saturday - the charger arrived and i was able to charge the battery. Tomorrow I will be able to use the bike to get to work for the first time in over a week.
Today - I am still waiting for delivery of the 2nd charger i purchased. I've not heard anything from 50cycles and have no idea if or when it will be delivered.

I am sorry it took so much hard work on the part of me and my partner to get 50cycles to finally prise open their minds and consider the problem might be at their end - not mine. When they did, they quickly identified the problem and a solution and they provided the service they clearly perform often enough to earn the loyalty of your "unbiased" selves, albeit, a week later than promised.

Flecc, I can think of a few ways that 50 cycles could have bettered their efforts ....
1. They could have behaved with respect when i called on wedneday and told them about the delivery problem, and refrained from insulting me on the phone.
2. They might have considered the problem might be at their end - even though it looked like it was at mine.
3. They offer delivery as part of the purchase. By working in partnership with the customer they can ensure the items purchased from them are delivered.

Still expecting the best
Mil

 

[Ian]

Apologies Mil if I took a simplistic veiw of what was a far more complex problem than I appreciated. It seems there were errors made by both supplier and courier and you've been extremely unlucky to have had a problem in the first place and then to have this trouble sorting it out.
I wish you better luck with the bike in future.

 

[flecc]

Many thanks for the full explanation Mil, clearly things were more complex than they seemed at first. I hope everything gets resolved quickly now, and to your eventual satisfaction. It hasn't been a happy way to start off with a new bike, but hopefully you'll soon be able to commute reliably.
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[JohnInStockie]

There we go, an apology from the supplier and a promise to do better. Now I doubt that the courier will be so forthcoming....

Note for others though, best to ask for someone else if you get through to James while querying deliveries...

 

[flecc]

Sorry John, I realise it was said in jest, but I couldn't disagree more with that last sentiment.

If I were running a company I would hope to have James as a customer front man, a role I've known him perform extremely well all the time he's been with 50cycles.

Whether on the phone, on a show stand or delivering a customer's new bike, the friendly helpful service he gives is quite exceptional, and he is in my view one of 50cycles best assets.

I'll add what I've often said about customer service, one gets what one asks for. If an aggressive approach is used it isn't conducive to getting a good response, a mistake so many make, but if a friendly helpful attitude is adopted at the outset, the result is invariably favourable.
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[frank9755]

I don't think it is a question of individuals. There is a weight of evidence that supports the view that the 50 Cycles owners and employees as individuals do have high customer service standards, are honest and ethical in their approach. The problem is the business model. Electric bikes are a complicated product which is not suited to home shopping. Home shopping works well 95%+ of the time, when things are as planned but when something goes wrong, the problems are far harder to fix. I think this little case study illustrates this point well.

My own minor experience when I attempted to become a 50 Cycles customer, showed some similar characteristics, with information not being passed between different people and inconsistencies in approach. I know they are a small business who most probably don't have the big customer relationship management systems needed to support home shopping operations, so I was not offended!

Frank

 

[JohnInStockie]

Sorry John, I realise it was said in jest, but I couldn't disagree more with that last sentiment.

If I were running a company I would hope to have James as a customer front man, a role I've known him perform extremely well all the time he's been with 50cycles.

Whether on the phone, on a show stand or delivering a customer's new bike, the friendly helpful service he gives is quite exceptional, and he is in my view one of 50cycles best assets.

I'll add what I've often said about customer service, one gets what one asks for. If an aggressive approach is used it isn't conducive to getting a good response, a mistake so many make, but if a friendly helpful attitude is adopted at the outset, the result is invariably favourable.
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Flecc - Obviously I cannot comment as I have had no dealings with 50 cycles at all. But I have respect for the views of yourself and the others who have got plenty of experience, and so if Im incorrect, I take the comment back.

One thing I would add though, as I understand the law, arent suppliers responsible for proving delivery of goods, or refunding monies? Isnt that the 'contract' the people enter into when remote purchasing, regardless of the complexities of the delivery service?

John

Found this link

 

[allotmenteer]

I've recently purchased a battery from 50cycles and can report that I was informed as to when the new stock was expected (the following Friday) and assured the battery would be dispatched immediately it arrived in. Sure enough the battery arrived as promised. Full marks to 50cycles for good communication and customer service.

The same goes for powacycle who dispatched my battery by next day delivery.

 

[flecc]

One thing I would add though, as I understand the law, arent suppliers responsible for proving delivery of goods, or refunding monies? Isnt that the 'contract' the people enter into when remote purchasing, regardless of the complexities of the delivery service?

John

Found this link

Probably not applicable in this case John, as it was a free of charge replacement. However, if the courier presented something for signature as proof of receipt and no-one was in, any responsibility would certainly end there.
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[JohnInStockie]

However, if the courier presented something for signature as proof of receipt and no-one was in, any responsibility would certainly end there.
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Sorry Flecc but I would disagree with you there.

In the case of a replacment, statutory law would still apply and it would be the responsibility of the supplier to 'replace' faulty goods. If the goods were not 'replaced' (as in proved to be replaced in the case of a delivery), then the law would still apply.

In the case of a purchase then it is the reponsibility of the Supplier to prove actual delivery not proof of attempt of delivery, or refund the consumer.

If the consumer says they have not received the goods, and neither the delivery company nor the supplier can prove that the goods were delivered, then a refund or replacement must surely follow.

Thereafter it would be a small claims court, and I doubt the consumer would lose.


John

 

[flecc]

That may be the technicality John, but if I was the supplier I would dig my heels in and refuse to budge.

And I'll bet nothing would be enforced, since in similar situations where suppliers have drawn a line in the sand, their will invariably prevails. This is a typical case of the law potentially being an ass, placing the supplier at the mercy of an unco-operative customer.
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[Ian]

The condensed version of the distance selling regulations on the dti website say that the goods must be delivered within 30 days and the risk remains with the supplier until delivered.

That differs from what I had been told by a reliable source in the past and may me of interest to those who have posted about slow/non delivery from other suppliers in the past.

 

[frank9755]

Correct, Ian - there's absolutely no doubt that responsibility for the delivery resides with the retailer until the customer has signed for delivery. I've done a lot of work in home shopping, advising both retailers and parcel carriers, and this point is not only the law, it is well understood and accepted by those in the industry.

The retailer may choose a carrier to undertake delivery on its behalf. If the carrier does not perform, the retailer can sack them and use another. Therefore the retailer can't blame the carrier, as he has asked the carrier to work for him!

Frank

 

[frank9755]

Scott,

Thanks for your reply.

Your competitive advantage comes from having a market leading product. I think its widely accepted that there's nothing to match the quality of your range of bikes available from local dealers. However, at some point there inevitably will be top quality bikes in shops - as good or nearly as good as yours. At that point your competitive advantage will have disappeared. Those who are easier to buy from will then have competitive advantage, unless you choose something else to compete on. This could be price, but I don't think high service level is enough, as a dealer on the spot should always be able to do at least as well, and doesn't have to trust his reputation to parcel carriers.

I'm sure its not a trivial task to build and manage a retail channel, but it's not impossible. Others have done it across a range of sectors (including Powabyke, Urbanmover and Powacycle in electric bikes). And, as a product matures and becomes more widely known and accepted, it gets easier. Nevertheless it does cost time and margin, so it may not appear to be the right thing for you at the moment. Although, what you can't factor in to the decision is the value of your lost sales where people choose an alternative (or inferior) product that is available in a local shop.

Obviously, It's not my place to tell you how to run your business, only an opinion provoked by the discussion, so feel free to ignore what I say!

Best,

Frank

 

[flecc]

Correct, Ian - there's absolutely no doubt that responsibility for the delivery resides with the retailer until the customer has signed for delivery. I've done a lot of work in home shopping, advising both retailers and parcel carriers, and this point is not only the law, it is well understood and accepted by those in the industry.

The retailer may choose a carrier to undertake delivery on its behalf. If the carrier does not perform, the retailer can sack them and use another. Therefore the retailer can't blame the carrier, as he has asked the carrier to work for him!

Frank

But we are speaking here of a situation where the carrier has attempted delivery and has left a card inviting the customer to collect or arrange an acceptable alternative delivery date. If the customer did not co-operate, then, as I said, I would consider I'd done enough and I'd ultimately be supported. That's why we have higher courts, to ignore the letter of the law where necessary and interpret according to what parliament reasonably intended. The literal interpretation of the law as you describe it in all circumstances would be a nonsense, since it would make the retailer a passive victim of an obstructive customer. The courts would not support that situation.
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[frank9755]

Flecc,

In the parcels industry tremendous importance is attached to the 'proof of delivery', the signature that is given to show that the goods have been received by the consignee. Until that has been obtained, the goods have not been delivered. They remain in the possession of the seller (or his carrier acting as his agent). A card through the letterbox means nothing.

Different carriers have different policies. For example, UPS traditionally would make three delivery attempts, others might leave a parcel with a neighbour, or in a bin if that is what has been requested, and if they feel it is safe to do so. But regardless of what they do, if they decide it is not possible to make a delivery, the goods will be returned to the shipper, who would refund the customer and cancel the transaction - or make other arrangements if both parties want to continue to do business.

Without wishing to go over it all again, in this specific example it sounds like the customer had told 50 Cycles that she would not be at home to receive delivery during working hours and an agreement was made to leave the parcel somewhere. 50 Cycles' courier went ahead and attempted to deliver when she was not at home but did not do what had been agreed, regardless of this information having been provided. Furtheremore it appears they did not provide the information she needed to cooperate with the delivery - so the ball was clearly in 50 Cycles' court!

Frank