The Bosch drive system

[Blew it]

I'm interested to know the experiences of any members who have ridden this machine, particularly regarding chain alignment when spanning a nine cog cassette with a single chain-wheel, something not usually attempted on a conventional bike. Assuming chain alignment is optimised for the center rear cog (5th gear) the chain alignment is going to be very acute in top and bottom gear.

When first looking at this machine, I assumed it had a triple chain-wheel, but it appears not to be. Apparently the triple reduction is achieved within the crank-drive unit, electronically perhaps, but it still begs the question, will the chain be happy to cover a nine speed cassette.

Those of us who ride extended wheel-base E-bikes will know the longer chain length of those machines helps greatly in spanning a seven speed freewheel, but even then the chain alignment becomes acute in bottom and top gear with more than a few protests from the chain. Considering the short wheel-base of the Haibike, is the chain going to be happy with the acute angle at the extreme ends of the cassette.

Hmmm, I suppose the only way to find out is buy one!

 

[flecc]

Spanning 8 or 9 rear sprockets from one chainwheel is already widely done with the SRAM DualDrive, which provides the triple chainring function by combining a 3 speed hub with the cassette. There is expert agreement that the efficiency loss due to misaligned chains is very low, so mainly the question of the ease of gear change remains.

I think that's going to be very much down to the right choice of rear mechanism, and I see the Offroader has a very long arm mechanism for this purpose. The Shimano XT M 773 Shadow derailleur is what is specified for it.
.

 

[Blew it]

Ah, that's reassuring to know, thanks flecc.

 

[eddieo]

Just back from Brum and have read through the 15 page thread on German pedelec's re these bikes (not easy using auto translate)

All I can say is that anyone thinking of buying one should read this first. There seems to be a problem with the left hand crank flying of. one did it on a shop test dride, then it happened to another user only after 100Km, and around page 11 yet another! there is a video with this one...

So as for being an early adopter I would wait a bit, unless you feel happy to handle anything thats comes up, but at this price range I would be expecting a certain level of reliability? Is that not reasonable? lol

 

[Blew it]

Yes I think your right Edd, it's far too early to consider, anyway I was only teasing about buying one.

Quite honestly I don't think the Bosch system is a serious competitor for the Panasonic center-drive, at least not yet. The recent changes to the Panasonic firmware means it is a much sportier system than a year ago, all I need now is the BMZ 18 ah battery to enable full enjoyment of the changes, hopefully it will arrive soon.

All the best
Bob

 

[danieldrough]

I have a Sram dual drive on my (non-electric) Bike Friday. It works beautifully and has a great range,19-108, for a small wheeled bike.

 

[eddieo]

Its not that often that Flecc talks with enthusiasm for a new bike, He usually points out the various shortcomings and brings us all right back down to earth with a bump!lol This bike in twin suspension mode is really exciting I think and I will be keeping my eye on it

Back to german forum now for the latest

It looks like we will see a lot of new bikes this year with Bosch system...Seems that anyone who tests one wants one! many selling there BionX and the like and ordering the haibike.....

 

[Blew it]

Edd, any chance of a link to the thread your following on the German forum, I'm darned if I can find it

Cheers
Bob

 

[mechaniker]

Edd, any chance of a link to the thread your following on the German forum, I'm darned if I can find it

Cheers
Bob

Bosch

regards
frank

 

[Blew it]

Thanks Frank, very much appreciated.

Regards
Bob

 

[eddieo]

auto translated version:

Google Translate

Justbikes are up in Norfolk somewhere, I will get up there for a test ride as a VERY interesting bike ......

 

[Blew it]

Thanks for the link Edd.

All the best
Bob

 

[eddieo]

KTM have some Bosch models at just under £2000

KTM Macina Bold

 

[james@justebikes.co.uk]

Haibike eQ Trekking in-hub gears

Its in the last link. The offroad is £2.7K and the Trekking is £2.2K.

Quite a lot of money but comparable with other high end ebikes as flecc states.

Supprisingly, according to the specs, the offroad is lighter.

For the Trekking I would prefer to see a hub gear.

Regards

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

The Haibike eQ Trekking does have 3 speed in-hub gears, albeit to compliment the 9 speed dérailleur set making 27 gears total. Its SRAM's Dual Drive. Thanks for your post - I've uploaded images and better description of the Trekking's gears on justebikes site as a result: eQ Trekking
Rgds, James

 

[flecc]

Hi Jerry,

The Haibike eQ Trekking does have 3 speed in-hub gears, albeit to compliment the 9 speed dérailleur set making 27 gears total. Its Shimano's SRAM Dual Drive. Thanks for your post - I've uploaded images and better description of the Trekking's gears on justebikes site as a result (Ed, are we allowed to post links here?)
Rgds, James

Yes, you can post links James.

A correction. The SRAM Dual Drive is not Shimano's. It's the product of Shimano's main rival, US company SRAM, which in turn was born out of the German Sachs bicycle gear company. Shimano has no equivalent to the unique Dual Drive.
.

 

[james@justebikes.co.uk]

HHaibike Bosch range

Realistically some riders might get down to about 20 miles, but most should get over 25 miles. Offroad the consumption can be very high in mileage terms of course, if riding some very tough sections at low speeds and high power.

Weights are 20.4 kilos for the offroad, 22.6 kilos for the more fully equipped road version.
.

Flecc, your not far out on range. Over the years I've grown skeptical of mnfs range claims but having completed 280 miles on the Haibike XDuro FS that climbed the steps I can vouch for their figures. In fact most of the riding I've been doing has been off road (to work and for fun) and it does 25 miles on the ruff stuff on MAX POWER setting. I've no idea what it will do on lower settings 'cos I cant bring myself to turn it down! Come and try it for yourself....

Rgds,
James

 

[james@justebikes.co.uk]

Haibike Bosch VS Flyer Panasonic

yes I always loved the Bosh Electric Bike Drive, I love the way it looks and I think it will be a very serious competition for Panasonic drive, don't you think?

Hi Andy,
We used to sell Flyers and whilst there is no doubt they were top of the crank-drive tree in 2007/8/9, the Bosch system has much more power, is more robust, and is a much neater fit in the frame. My favorite Flyer was the I:SY (small but rides like an full size machine). I still have one at home so will put a rope between the two and do a "tug-of-war".

Rgds,

James

 

[james@justebikes.co.uk]

Haibike eQ Trekking chain angle/ware

I'm interested to know the experiences of any members who have ridden this machine, particularly regarding chain alignment when spanning a nine cog cassette with a single chain-wheel, something not usually attempted on a conventional bike. Assuming chain alignment is optimised for the center rear cog (5th gear) the chain alignment is going to be very acute in top and bottom gear.

When first looking at this machine, I assumed it had a triple chain-wheel, but it appears not to be. Apparently the triple reduction is achieved within the crank-drive unit, electronically perhaps, but it still begs the question, will the chain be happy to cover a nine speed cassette.

Those of us who ride extended wheel-base E-bikes will know the longer chain length of those machines helps greatly in spanning a seven speed freewheel, but even then the chain alignment becomes acute in bottom and top gear with more than a few protests from the chain. Considering the short wheel-base of the Haibike, is the chain going to be happy with the acute angle at the extreme ends of the cassette.

Hmmm, I suppose the only way to find out is buy one!

Hi BlewIt,
The Haibike eQ Trekking has single chain wheel. It gets to 27 by using SRAM Dual Drive, so chain angle/ware is not a problem.

Rgds,

James

 

[james@justebikes.co.uk]

Suffolk test ride Haibike

auto translated version:

Google Translate

Justbikes are up in Norfolk somewhere, I will get up there for a test ride as a VERY interesting bike ......

Hi Eddieo,
Suffolk is the place - no Haibikes in Norfolk!. We're on the coast so there are plenty of challenging tracks and paths to test-ride on. Riding along our shingle beach is a whole new experience for me - very weird - your brain says you cant be doing it, but there you are...doing it.

Our local train station is Saxmundham. We often leave e-bikes there so visitors can electrocycle the 4 miles to our showroom in Leiston. Let me know if works for you (same goes for anyone else reading this).


Rgds,

James

 

[NRG]

Hi Andy,
We used to sell Flyers and whilst there is no doubt they were top of the crank-drive tree in 2007/8/9, the Bosch system has much more power, is more robust, and is a much neater fit in the frame. My favorite Flyer was the I:SY (small but rides like an full size machine). I still have one at home so will put a rope between the two and do a "tug-of-war".

Rgds,

James

They still are The Panasonic system is proven with many units in use around the world. The Bosch has yet to earn it's spurs. Apart from the noise issue I also think it hangs too low below the bottom bracket, the Panasonic is neater in this respect but then looses out with the battery behind the seat post.