That case... and the public interest

[stumpy150]

Good Evening all!

I'm in the middle of a debate with one of the cycling industry publishers and I think I'm right, but I'd quite like to be wrong (as there is good money to be made).

So here's my question, as I've spent 30 minutes searching on here and whilst I'm sure its been discussed I can't find it.

At some point in the past there has been a UK case where a UK eCyclist was going to be prosecuted, but the prosecution was dropped because it wasn't in the public interest.

Would this be recorded anywhere, does anyone know any details?

I have a sneaky feeling it might have been back when the UK law was 200w, but everyone was selling and riding 250w, and thats why it wasn't in the public interest to prosecute - because the law was always going to be changed.

The issue has come up because a certain distributor of eBikes has said:

"There has already been precedent set whereby a customers was hit by a public bus on a speed pedelec and the bus company tried to prosecute on grounds of no registration, tax or insurance, but the defendant was found not guilty because it was deemed not to be in the public interest to do so. I think in a legal context this could pave the way for anyone using a speed pedelec, so long as they do not cause public harm."

http://www.cyclingindustry.news/50cyclesinterviewelectricbikes/

Now in all my time selling and working with eBikes and the law I've not come across this case. But its being used as justification for the selling of sPedelecs in the UK.

So are we at KTM and our dealers missing a trick? Is there a case that has set a precedent for this? I really can't see it.

Does anyone have any details of any cases at all either way on anything eBike related?

I'm not trying to start a debate on legality or anything. I'm just looking to see if anyone knows anything I don't about UK cases.

Thoughts please

There was some info posted by North Yorkshire Police in 2015 that they had stopped a spedelec and were considering prosecution etc..Yet I cant seem to find anything on the web now....Will do a bit more digging

 

[SRS]

Good Evening all!

I'm in the middle of a debate with one of the cycling industry publishers and I think I'm right, but I'd quite like to be wrong (as there is good money to be made).

So here's my question, as I've spent 30 minutes searching on here and whilst I'm sure its been discussed I can't find it.

At some point in the past there has been a UK case where a UK eCyclist was going to be prosecuted, but the prosecution was dropped because it wasn't in the public interest.

Would this be recorded anywhere, does anyone know any details?

I have a sneaky feeling it might have been back when the UK law was 200w, but everyone was selling and riding 250w, and thats why it wasn't in the public interest to prosecute - because the law was always going to be changed.

The issue has come up because a certain distributor of eBikes has said:

"There has already been precedent set whereby a customers was hit by a public bus on a speed pedelec and the bus company tried to prosecute on grounds of no registration, tax or insurance, but the defendant was found not guilty because it was deemed not to be in the public interest to do so. I think in a legal context this could pave the way for anyone using a speed pedelec, so long as they do not cause public harm."

http://www.cyclingindustry.news/50cyclesinterviewelectricbikes/

Now in all my time selling and working with eBikes and the law I've not come across this case. But its being used as justification for the selling of sPedelecs in the UK.

So are we at KTM and our dealers missing a trick? Is there a case that has set a precedent for this? I really can't see it.

Does anyone have any details of any cases at all either way on anything eBike related?

I'm not trying to start a debate on legality or anything. I'm just looking to see if anyone knows anything I don't about UK cases.

Thoughts please

Try this

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/is-your-pedelec-legal-from-ctcs-cycle-magazine.11241/

 

[soundwave]

well if a Yamaha motor is really 500w and a Bosch even more than that and been told its near 700w and both limited buy the software.

does that not make them not uk road legal?

 

[Gubbins]

Forget the watts.. here is a better idea..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3534614/Now-S-hoverboard-Firm-water-jetpacks-reveals-video-new-device-works-land-reaches-10-000ft.html

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[Gubbins]

Forget the watts.. here is a better idea..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3534614/Now-S-hoverboard-Firm-water-jetpacks-reveals-video-new-device-works-land-reaches-10-000ft.html

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Thought you would like this. Right up your street..

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

At some point in the past there has been a UK case where a UK eCyclist was going to be prosecuted, but the prosecution was dropped because it wasn't in the public interest.

Ther have been two cases.

In the one in which I was involved in assisting BEBA, a traffic officer wanted to prosecute an e-biker after an accident on the grounds that his 250 watt bike didn't accord to the 200 watt limit at the time..

With my advice the prosecution was called into question, so the officer went to his force for support. They contacted the DfT at which stage I advised further in a way that could embarrass the DfT and they then advised against a prosecution proceeding. Since that finally brought the 200/250 watt matter into a position where it had to be settled, the DfT convened a meeting in April 2013 at which it was decided that all police forces would be instructed not to prosecute on those grounds. They then went to work to finally harmonise with EU law which of course happened in April 2015.

I agreed to keep the details of force and officer confidential at the time so cannot disclose the identity of either.

The other case I only know of at third hand so cannot vouch for the accuracy of anything that follows. Apparently it was in Kingston Upon Thames, and involved a bus and an S-pedelec, but as far as I know no conviction resulted. I cannot see how that can be regarded as a precedent though, only a senior court can decide that an issue is a test case and give a ruling that might set a precedent.
.

 

[soundwave]

the police are 1 thing and the cps are another if they dont have a very good chance of wining the case they will let you go as i have been many times as the police did not have enough evidence to get a conviction to give to the cps.

 

[Gubbins]

the police are 1 thing and the cps are another if they dont have a very good chance of wining the case they will let you go as i have been many times as the police did not have enough evidence to get a conviction to give to the cps.

Is that why crims just deny everything?

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[soundwave]

yes as if the police has not got enough evidence the cps will not prosecute thus why they interview you and keep you in the sells.

the police are trained to get you to confess as why they record it to give to the cps.

if you sit there and say no comment all they have is the evidence they have collected.

so if you are on a ebike more than 250w they will have to prove it to give to the cps so not in the public's interest as that will cost a fortune.

its more money than law these days

 

[RobF]

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Am I the only person who finds this tagline at the end of all Phill's posts irritating?

 

[Gringo]

New Am I the only person who finds this tagline at the end of all Phill's posts irritating?

I find a lot of things in life irritating but that's not one of them


Sent from my iPad using my finger

 

[trex]

...
"There has already been precedent set whereby a customers was hit by a public bus on a speed pedelec and the bus company tried to prosecute on grounds of no registration, tax or insurance, but the defendant was found not guilty because it was deemed not to be in the public interest to do so. I think in a legal context this could pave the way for anyone using a speed pedelec, so long as they do not cause public harm."

Thoughts please

that comment from the UK largest e-bike sellers?
I could not believe what I was reading.
I am all for legalizing s-pedelecs but no, that was just sending all the wrong signals.

 

[Gubbins]

Am I the only person who finds this tagline at the end of all Phill's posts irritating?

I too find this irritating both from myself and from others when i see it and would like to stop it but don't know how....
It's like bragging "hey look what I have" and is unintentional.

[emoji35]


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[Gubbins]

Have found the setting to turn it off...
I like to think I am above average for my age group regarding Internet and computing, but sadly lacking when compared to the general population..
Apologies for any irritation caused

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Thanks Flecc, and the couple of people who messaged us with links to cases including the one in Kingston.

I will update you if I find anything new.

 

[Izzyekerslike]

Am I the only person who finds this tagline at the end of all Phill's posts irritating?

Am I the only person who finds this tagline at the end of all Phill's posts irritating?

Blimey! Doesn't take much to irritate you maybe your suffering from phone envy.

 

[Gubbins]

View attachment 13640


Blimey! Doesn't take much to irritate you maybe your suffering from phone envy. View attachment 13640

I must say I tend to agree with him on this.. perhaps it's an age thing... like blond but older..

 

[Cyclezee]

really??? can you please stop. There has to be a function on this forum where the OP can request that a person is banned from a discussion.

ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH SPEED.

I'M ASKING IF ANYONE CAN FIND THE DETAILS OF THE CASE, BECAUSE ITS BEEN DISCUSSED ON HERE BEFORE.

MY COMPUTER ALSO HAS GOOGLE.... so please stop posting irrelevant things, I can find them too.

Just a suggestion, but perhaps you should have your own forum where you control who the members are and no one is allowed to disagree with you?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Just a suggestion, but perhaps you should have your own forum where you control who the members are and no one is allowed to disagree with you?

He's not disagreeing with me. I'm all for debate as we all learn something.

What he's done is post irrelevant posts that are not related to the discussion.

I wasn't presenting an argument or a case, so it wasn't possible to disagree with the question I asked in my OP. Luckily the questions have now been answered so he's free to post whatever nonsense he wants to now.

 

[Gubbins]

He's not disagreeing with me. I'm all for debate as we all learn something.

What he's done is post irrelevant posts that are not related to the discussion.

I wasn't presenting an argument or a case, so it wasn't possible to disagree with the question I asked in my OP. Luckily the questions have now been answered so he's free to post whatever nonsense he wants to now.

As are you![emoji41]