Surprising how quick these Brexit price rises have happened

[Yamdude]

Not opinions or beliefs. I simply posted the facts and the associated figures of the markets. Those are so overwhelming that they are undeniable.

However I'll add this to challenge you. Why are there so few British e-bikers when during the last decade perfectly good e-bikes have been on the mass market in Britain at about £300, including one model with a lithium battery. This includes from very large chains of national retailers.

And that's not to mention all the sound e-bikes there's been and still are in the £500 to £800 area.

Clearly price isn't deterring the British from buying e-bikes. There are two reasons why they aren't. The first is the well over 90% (mainly car drivers) who don't cycle and seem unwilling to do so on any bike. The second is that so many of the 3% who do regularly cycle turn their noses up at the idea of an e-bike, foolishly thinking it cheating etc. Not opinions, truths we all know.
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Yeah yeah yeah........ people always claims their opinions are the truth.
And so it goes on and on and on and on....... much like your Brexit thread.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Unbelievable!

 

[Crockers]

You can lead a horse to water............

I'm still waiting for the 12million Turks to arrive and a new hospital built every week.

 

[gray198]

First of all Kudos has not raised its prices,yet, although it was tempting to follow the crowd.
E-bikes haven't been around that long,Wisper was one of the pioneers,I think going 11 years now.
What does make e-bikes dearer in the UK is the fact that customers often want to buy from a local dealer,that dealer has to make a profit,in the UK it is very expensive to maintain high street shops,probably double the cost of shops in Germany and Holland,business rates are a killer.
There has been a boom in sports bike riding in the UK but as these riders get older they find the need for assisted cycling. But this takes time,Germany and Holland have gone through that time cycle,we are still at the start.
We are not historically a cycling nation,surprising how successful we are in the Olympics and Tour de France and our infrastructure to accommodate cyclists has been done on the cheap and badly,in Germany the cycle tracks are isolated from the vehicles and are wonderful.
These are some of the reasons why e-bikes are sold less in the UK. I don't think it is about price,there is a choice of price levels to suit all budgets,our prices tend to be less than say Germany.
You can't compare the cost of an e-bike to a non assisted bike,the battery is still an expensive component,even the cheapest suppliers have an electrical parts cost of £250.
My personal opinion is that vat adversely affects the cost of e-bikes,the £200 vat element of a £1k bike puts the bike at exactly the wrong point of the price level....by that I mean that £20 on a £100 item can be ignored,£2000 on a £20k car is dialled into the long term finance,but the bike sits to jump in price where £200 seems out of proportion to the product.
KudosDave

Maybe the government will be able to reduce vat on sporting and health goods etc (if they are serious about obesity) when we come out of the EU and get the ability to make these decisions. Prob much better idea than sugar taxes etc. Let people be responsible their own health

 

[gray198]

Go into the bike park by any Dutch railway station there you will see real numbers of bikes,they have had to double stack them to get them all in,it's actually a parking problem.
What you see in the UK is a tiny number relative to Europe.
KudosDave

Isn't that because they have a much better cycling infrastructure and people don't take the risk of being knocked off by some impatient motorist every time they go out

 

[Kudoscycles]

I wasn't comparing bikes in this country to other countries......
I can sometimes go months without seeing another ebike, yet in that time i will have seen many hundreds of push bikes.
I believe the slow take up of ebikes is because of how expensive they are..... and these Brexit price rises aren't going to help that.

What concerns me is that people may take you serious,I assume you are joking when you say 'that e-bikes are expensive'.....it may be a Somerset thing,is Somerset part of the U.K.?
One of my dealers was located next to Sigma Sports,Sigma is one of the premier bike shops in London. We had a customer who had just spent £5k on his Specialised sports bike from Sigma, he bought additional wheels at £800 each,he then bought a Kudos Sonata for his wife at £1200.....he was worried whether he would get quality at such a low price,should he be spending more....his wife loves the bike and hehe beats him up Richmond Hill.
It isn't price which is the deterrent to wider e-bike usage.
KudosDave

 

[Yamdude]

What concerns me is that people may take you serious,I assume you are joking when you say 'that e-bikes are expensive'.....it may be a Somerset thing,is Somerset part of the U.K.?
One of my dealers was located next to Sigma Sports,Sigma is one of the premier bike shops in London. We had a customer who had just spent £5k on his Specialised sports bike from Sigma, he bought additional wheels at £800 each,he then bought a Kudos Sonata for his wife at £1200.....he was worried whether he would get quality at such a low price,should he be spending more....his wife loves the bike and hehe beats him up Richmond Hill.
It isn't price which is the deterrent to wider e-bike usage.
KudosDave

Not only do i believe that a lot of them are expensive, they're overpriced as well.
I'm not the only person on the forum that thinks that, neither am i the only person that believes some dealers are profiteering using Brexit as the excuse.
People dont have to agree with me on this, i couldn't really care less if they dont. I just post my opinions and what i believe.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Amazing!

 

[Kudoscycles]

Not only do i believe that a lot of them are expensive, they're overpriced as well.
I'm not the only person on the forum that thinks that, neither am i the only person that believes some dealers are profiteering using Brexit as the excuse.
People dont have to agree with me on this, i couldn't really care less if they dont. I just post my opinions and what i believe.

So what do you think a good quality e-bike should cost?
By good quality I mean Chinese supply but with the standard Bafang motor ,good frame and 10 Ah battery.
I think you are the only guy on this forum who thinks as you do,postings would suggest you are somewhat isolated in these views.
You do care otherwise why would you respond to postings but yes you are entitled to your opinions and beliefs even if they are wrong.
Await what you think the cost should be?
KudosDave

 

[Yamdude]

So what do you think a good quality e-bike should cost?
By good quality I mean Chinese supply but with the standard Bafang motor ,good frame and 10 Ah battery.
I think you are the only guy on this forum who thinks as you do,postings would suggest you are somewhat isolated in these views.
You do care otherwise why would you respond to postings but yes you are entitled to your opinions and beliefs even if they are wrong.
Await what you think the cost should be?
KudosDave

I'm not the only person with these views...... try post 5 and post 8 on this thread.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I'm not the only person with these views...... try post 5 and post 8 on this thread.

So what do you think a good quality e-bike should cost?
KudosDave

 

[Yamdude]

Dealers, salesman and businessmen.....
They dont like it up em Capt'n Mainwaring.
No they dont Jones, they'd like us to believe everything they say.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Dealers, salesman and businessmen.....
They dont like it up em Capt'n Mainwaring.
No they dont Jones, they'd like us to believe everything they say.

Forget the rubbish....you said we are all profiteering,so put your money where your mouth is and tell us what you think a good quality e-bike should cost?
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Yeah yeah yeah........ people always claims their opinions are the truth.
And so it goes on and on and on and on....... much like your Brexit thread.

As Amps posted, unbelievable!

Since when were the two circa £300 Cyclamatics from SportsHQ an opinion? Since when were the two circa £300 - £350 e-bikes from Tesco an opinion?

They existed for years, many members bought them and many still own them and have posted about them with photos and modifications.

Their existence is factual, demonstrating that national availability of low cost e-bikes hasn't made them widely popular in Britain, fact.

The great majority of the British public just don't want e-bikes at any price. They'll spend many hundreds of pounds on phones, drones, tablets, X-box, Wii, PlayStation, 3D TVs etc., but clearly not e-bikes, even when they are often as cheap or cheaper than those other things.
.

 

[Yamdude]

Forget the rubbish....you said we are all profiteering,so put your money where your mouth is and tell us what you think a good quality e-bike should cost?
KudosDave

I dont have to tell you anything..... I've told you my beliefs, you dont agree with it.
Thats all there is to it really.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I dont have to tell you anything..... I've told you my beliefs, you dont agree with it.
Thats all there is to it really.

No you haven't ,You haven't told me your beliefs,what do you believe a good quality e-bike should cost? That's a very simple question,if you believe this industry is profiteering what do you think is a fair price that these bikes should cost?
You seem to be struggling to put a price alongside your beliefs.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Yam dude....I will let you have an insight into the pricing structure behind e-bike importing. Fortunately only a small part of my revenue comes from e-bike sales so I can be more open than others.
A trip round the Shanghai show will reveal that e-bikes cost between 450-600 US dollars,below 450 you are into dubious quality standards,the difference between 450-600 dependent upon specification (battery size/type,motor type,hydraulic brakes etc).
Considering this from the Chinese viewpoint,would you want to collect all the parts together,pay for staff/factory costs and make a profit (usually 50 US dollars per bike),I wouldn't!....I find these ex factory prices still remarkably low.
The minimum quantity you can realistically ship to keep the shipping cost reasonable is 200 units(40 foot container),you are wasting your time shipping 20 footers.
You put your 30% down and pay 70% on BOL,delivery usually 4-6 months.
When the goods hit Felixstowe you have to pay vat + import duty,26% total...you get the vat back at next vat return,maybe 4 months ahead,but the duty goes to the government. On most shipments the vat and duty payment comes to about £20k.
Dealers have to earn 30% profit,which is really not enough to pay for bricks and mortar costs,insurance,rates,staff etc.
Ok,here is the schedule from a 'profiteering' e-bike importer.....
Taking a lower priced bike of 450 US dollars...
450 dollars........at 1.3 to £......FOB price....£346.15
6% duty. 20.76
Shipping cost. 20.00
Landed cost. £386.19
Importer profit. 100.00
Courier ship cost,importer to dealer. 25.00
Dealer cost. £511.19
Dealer profit ,30%. 153.36
Dealer sale. £664.55
20% vat. 132.91
Sale with vat. £797.46

If you look at the Kudos Milano or Verona they are priced at £795.00... Still think we are profiteering?
KudosDave

 

[Yamdude]

Yam dude....I will let you have an insight into the pricing structure behind e-bike importing. Fortunately only a small part of my revenue comes from e-bike sales so I can be more open than others.
A trip round the Shanghai show will reveal that e-bikes cost between 450-600 US dollars,below 450 you are into dubious quality standards,the difference between 450-600 dependent upon specification (battery size/type,motor type,hydraulic brakes etc).
Would you want to collect all the parts together,pay for staff/factory costs and make a profit (usually 50 US dollars per bike),I wouldn't!....I find these ex factory prices still remarkably low.
The minimum quantity you can realistically ship to keep the shipping cost reasonable is 200 units(40 foot container),you are wasting your time shipping 20 footers.
You put your 30% down and pay 70% on BOL,delivery usually 4-6 months.
When the goods hit Felixstowe you have to pay vat + import duty,26% total...you get the vat back at next vat return,maybe 4 months ahead,but the duty goes to the government. On most shipments the vat and duty payment comes to about £20k.
Dealers have to earn 30% profit,which is really not enough to pay for bricks and mortar costs,insurance,rates,staff etc.
Ok,here is the schedule from a 'profiteering' e-bike importer.....
Taking a lower priced bike of 450 US dollars...
450 dollars........at 1.3 to £......FOB price....£346.15
6% duty. 20.76
Shipping cost. 20.00
Landed cost. £386.19
Importer profit. 100.00
Courier ship cost,importer to dealer. 25.00
Dealer cost. £511.19
Dealer profit ,30%. 153.36
Dealer sale. £664.55
20% vat. 132.91
Sale with vat. £797.46

If you look at the Kudos Milano or Verona they are priced at £795.00... Still think we are profiteering?
KudosDave

When i look at that post...... all i see is a salesman going blah, blah, blah, blah, blah etc etc.
Alright mate, whatever.

 

[danielrlee]

When i look at that post...... all i see is a salesman going blah, blah, blah, blah, blah etc etc.
Alright mate, whatever.

Maths not your strong point huh?

 

[trex]

that was calculated based on $1.30 exchange rate.
KD bought his container(s) at $1.43 though.
In fact, the importer margin needs to be around £200-£250 per bike to pay for staff (sales and support), carriage, premises and cover for cock-ups, leaving about £100 net profit per bike.