Supplier of 8fun bafang bpm hillclimber kit

[jbond]

There's a clearly a market here for somebody to step up and provide a European retail interface between the DIY market and all the various suppliers. The problem is that it takes quite a bit of capital to carry the stock and handle the warranty side. The OP is not the only person to ask questions like this.

I'm not sure where this is going to come from. Whether its one of the big bicycle retailers like Evans or ChainReaction, one of the existing shops like Alien or the Electric Transport Shop or people like Mechaniker expanding their business.

Whisper and their Daahub is one approach that really just makes what Alien were doing with their kits but more professional. There are some fairly obvious complete packages that could be made up for DIY conversions. The problem is those of us who are never quite satisfied or want something a bit customised or different from the package. We want to be able to mix and match with a specific SB (BMS, Puma, etc) motor in a specific rim to a specific controller to a specific battery and battery mounting system and then to be able to get all the individual bits (switches, sensors, controls, plugs, sockets, torque arms, brake levers, etc etc) to make it actually work.

A lot of that is just traditional bicycle shop stock in a slightly different area. For the big bits, it should be possible to reduce the range to a few key components. The trick is to pick the right ones and have some custom assembly (like rim lacing) at point of sale. I should be able to spec 48v BPM 26(13) in a 700c rim, or QSWXH 36V(20") - 7 speed shimano, 26" rim. Batteries might be hard, but even here we're converging on 2 voltages, 2 capacities, 2 chemistries and 2 mounting techniques. That's a lot of combinations but several of them can be ignored. Even working with Ping for truly custom packs could be improved by a European specialist who provided the interface between the end-user and the manufacturer.

NRG: I'm sure you will, but do please keep us informed of how your Alien GS-E-Crazyman upgrade goes.

 

[NRG]

Will do. Also agree with your post, real opportunity maybe but I wonder how big the DIY market really is. Offering different build choices would be a nightmare but if just component supply it may prove less problamatic.

 

[jbond]

I wonder how big the DIY market really is. Offering different build choices would be a nightmare but if just component supply it may prove less problamatic.

Well there's how big it is now, and how big it might be. Whisper are taking a bet that they can grow the market by providing a more packaged, professional, complete kit from the kind of DIY offered by Alien. So in broad terms they think it's big enough now to justify the investment. Then there's DIY and DIY. There's a lot of people out there who can bolt bits on bicycles and would do it, if the price was low enough and the package complete and straight forward enough. There's rather fewer who are prepared to mix and match and get the soldering iron, crimpers and duct tape out. I suspect there's a lot of us somewhere in between as well. Not afraid to modify things with a hacksaw, drill and dremel, but not up to building battery packs from scratch.

The build choices are awkward but I think not impossible to handle. Before I got my Aurora, I approached Alien and posted here about obtaining an Aurora kit to fit an existing hybrid with the right width rear drop outs but with 700c wheels. This doesn't seem so unreasonable and it's pretty much what the OP is asking for as well. Alien wouldn't do it, because it wasn't a package they were already bringing in from China already boxed up and they couldn't mix and match. And back in August, we couldn't find any other EU supplier or the right combination direct from SE Asia either. If you had a warehouse of the parts, you could just shelf pick with the one exception being the BPM-700c. Now if you outsourced to a local who can lace wheels, you could offer motor A plus rim B on a 5 day turn around. Now you've just got to stock a range of motors to suit. That's perhaps 4 rear (250w-500w-750w 26"/700c, 250w 20") and 2 front (250w 26"/700c - 250w 20"). Or something.

 

[tepol]

I may have found a supplier from germany for the bpm hub ready laced into a black 26" rim. Unfortunatly they only have the 20" & 28" bpm in stock but they did offer me the 20" type laced into a 26" rim, would this make it slighty faster but a little less torque?

the price quoted was approx £320 just for the 36v 350w hub motor laced into a rim & delivered to the uk.
the price seems quite high compared to direct from china prices but at least i would avoid any customs charges, they are also quick to reply to any questions.

the companys web address is:

ebike-solutions.de

250w kit for 300 , thats rip-off if ever i saw one !!

I could get the 1 k kit form the US with shipping cheaper..through my
shipper, and probably the batteries too from BMS below.

http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25&products_id=110

 

[jayuk]

I have now ordered my BPM hillclimber kit from "cell man" well known on the endless sphere forums & extremely helpfull too!.

I will post photos when all up & running

i ordered a complete kit

Bpm 8fun hub motor in a black 26" rim & black SS spokes
48v 16s4p 9.2ah A123 battery pack
48v 25A controller (can be programmed via usb if needed)


I cant wait to get my hands it!!

jay

 

[averhamdave]

His site looks interesting and certainly the prices are attractive. How much was the shipping cost for your package Jay?

 

[jayuk]

averhamdave


There's 3 levels of shipping available (these prices are based on approx 10 - 15kg) price for a whole kit inc battery

EMS approx 1 week £220 -$240

Air Freight Approx 2 weeks $180

Slow Boat 2-4 weeks $125

my kit is being put together & should be ready in approx 3 weeks

wheel lacing & battery building/testing etc

i should be able to hit about 25-28mph although this kit is not legal in the Uk, i will be using cycle tracks mainly anyway, so if used sensibly i dont see a problem.



i think he has alot of work on at the moment

jay

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I have just ordered a 350w BPM kit from BMSbattery: Front motor in 26" rim; controller; throttle, pedal senso; brake levers and a few other bits. It came to $341 including shipping. Paypal converted it to £217.35, which to me seems to be a steal!. I'll let you know when it arrives whether I get caught for duty.

 

[Fordulike]

I have just ordered a 350w BPM kit from BMSbattery: Front motor in 26" rim; controller; throttle, pedal senso; brake levers and a few other bits. It came to $341 including shipping. Paypal converted it to £217.35, which to me seems to be a steal!. I'll let you know when it arrives whether I get caught for duty.

When i was doing some research on the BPM hub motors, i was under the illusion that they were rear hubs only.
Are you sure it's a front?
I noticed on the BMS Battery website that there still seems to be an option to select front or rear on a product, even when it is clear you are buying either a front or a rear.
Does that make sense???

 

[NRG]

Looks like rear only

CLIMBER——bpm series -Suzhou Bafang Electric Motor Science-Technology Co.,Ltd

 

[Deleted member 4366]

When I ordered, I selected 500w front motor and, after a couple of days, the guy e-mailed me to say that he had no stock of the front motor and asked if I wanted rear instead. I said, no. Then I received another e-mail to say that he only had 350w fronts and he could send one of those instead, so I accepted.

 

[mechaniker]

Looks like rear only

The BPM you also can get as a frontdrive please check: SFM-Bikes - Elektro-Fahrräder - BEAST man

and yes, you cant order the 500Watt version.
The 350Watt is highest level and i also would never suggest 500Watt for frontforks

regards
frank

 

[NRG]

My German is not that good Frank but the 'beast' seems to have a 250w motor.....confused.....

 

[mechaniker]

My German is not that good Frank but the 'beast' seems to have a 250w motor.....confused.....

sorry that i havent explain my intention,
i only want show the picture of this bike and if you look at the motor you see it is a Bafang BPM as a frontdrive.
"Sachs" is a traditional german Bike company. They build Bike´s/e-bike´s
I talk to them on exhibition "eurobike" and they told me the BPM is a good front-motor.

frank

 

[jbond]

There's something odd here. The motor has the side cable exit rather than the axle cable exit. They say it's 250W. But the motor is big enough to virtually hide a 160mm disk from the side. Looking at products details it seems closest to a QSWXB. But maybe 8Fun now do a front BPM and it's just not on any of their websites.

More confusion. The BPM is rated at 36v350W, 48v500W. There's no mention on any of the 8fun web sites of different versions. And yet some info on ES says that they come in various codes with different target voltage, gearing and hence no-load RPM at different voltages. My own BPM is marked up as Bafang BPM 36v350W (13)26 And the (13)26 seems to refer to a Code #13 for a 26" wheel.

This seems to be a common problem. Both the SB and Cute motors may be available in different designs but with the same name with different gearing to suit 20"->700c wheels. So perhaps a QSWXK for instance is not necessarily one motor, but actually a range of 5 or so motors with a common casing. Similarly with a Cute Q-R-100SX. And yet when you find full motor graphs, there's no mention on the graphs of which gearing variant is being tested, as if there is actually only one motor design.

 

[NRG]

Agreed! Confuses the hell out of me as well....

 

[mechaniker]

hi guys,

you can buy a lot of different motors on bafang and many possibility´s is´nt shown on the website of bafang.

only the dealers with interest know what is possible.
I had a lot of personal discuss with the bafang boss on exhibition in China and elsewhere in the world.
I can offer the SWXK also for disk brake on rigth side or i show you how to build up a chaindrive with an swxk or you can buy the swxk with hallsensor and so on .

most dealers only know the main product but if you talk to the bafang engineer , they have much more products

by the way the gearbox is on SWXK or SWXH or SWXB always the same the different speed comes from copperwindings inside the motor and in this way the realise different rpm for different wheelsize.
The BPM you can get with 250/350/500Watt version with or without hall. The 500Watt version is always with hall.

Belief me, the "Sachs-ebike" use a BPM as a front drive motor, as a bafang wholeseller i know what motor is inside this bike ;-)

so you see you can buy more different motors on bafang as they shown on website or as the people in chatrooms belief to know

regards
frank

 

[jbond]

the gearbox is on SWXK or SWXH or SWXB always the same the different speed comes from copperwindings inside the motor and in this way the realise different rpm for different wheelsize.

so you see you can buy more different motors on bafang as they shown on website or as the people in chatrooms belief to know

Very interesting. If we don't know then please teach us!

If I'm buying a motor on it's own for a DIY build, I really need to know what it is I'm buying. And I want to know the options so I can specify it exactly. If I can't get specs and product type numbers I have no way of doing that.

I'm contemplating a build of a 700c Hybrid. I like the look of rear drive motors and I feel most comfortable on occasional off road forays with a rear drive. I'd rather have a rear wheel lose traction under power than a front. I want the lightest possible motor. And I don't want top speed to be obviously motor limited where it just cuts out at say 19mph. So I'm thinking 36V SWXK designed for a 20" wheel in a 700c rim. So what actual Code/Product number do I ask for?

As an alternative, I'm attracted to the Cute Q-R-100SX because it's alleged to be 1Kg lighter. Again, if it's going to be run at 36V, and I want a 20" motor in a 700c rim, what do I ask for?

 

[mechaniker]

if you want ride faster as 25km/h you can use a 20" motor and fix it into a 28"rim, then you have support up to around 35km/h

There are many points you must decide by yourself, I give you some points for Bafang choisess but it is on most motor similar.
If you want order a motor in china at the producer you must say how much rpm you want have, nobody ask you for a motorcode.
175rpm is for 28",195rpm is for 26", 220rpm is for 24",255rpm is for 20", 275rpm is for 18" and around 320 is for 16".

But there is one important point you must know, the torque of the Motor goes down with every step of higher rpm.
To have a high torque and fast speed you can use 28"/36Vmotor with 48V, this lift up your power and speed around 30%, but sure it is against the law and the motor should be stabil for this. In germany many people ride this way.

No ebike motor is build for riding ofroad.

Then you must decide how much voltage you want, normal is 36v.

Next is you must know with Hall or without hall. With hall you save a little energy but you have something in your motor what can be brocken on to much heat.

Then you must know whether you want a speedsignal from your motor, nobody need in my eyes but bafang offer this. Bafang also offer a tempreature-sensor but also this nobody need in my eyes, special the most controller dont support this function.

If you want a front drive i would take the SWXK with hall.
If you want a small rear drive i would choose the SWXH
If you want a rear drive and good climbing i would choose the BPM or a MAC/Puma-motor
If you want high climbing and high speed you have to choose a chaindrive -system
If you want make a world trip with bike , i would take a direct-drive motor, it´s not light weight but stabil.

I dont like cute because of to weak and i follow everywhere the chatroom and i see very low good commenst about cute motors and a lot of this motors you find some month later in secondhand corner´s or in ebay.
If you are a good bikerider you can use this motor because you need this motor only for small support and then it is ok, the same i say for the tongxin-motor. Both motor is innerunner (i dont know is it right namned?) this sort of motor have lower torque as an Outrunner.

If it would be possible to build a very light weight and stabil e-bike motor every company would do it.
Bafang have the SWXU Motor it is only 1,9kg and more powerfull as a cute but the noise is higher as on SWXK.

You must know all what you do need a compromise because the perfect e-bike motor is not on market

In my eyes the best is a chaindrive-system but i dont see a good one for converting bike´s.

so now my finger is tired from writing ;-)

regards
frank

 

[jbond]

Frank, thanks for that, much good information in there.

On the Cute motors, I've tried to get real world experience with these motors but on ES nobody seems to know much about them. You're comments about unreliability don't really surprise me. Saving 1Kg for the exact same performance was too much to hope for.

I can see why so many bikes have standardised on 36V as it seems to be a good compromise between speed, range, weight and so on. And also why the people going for power and performance push upwards to 48V, 72V or even higher.

I think chain drive makes a lot of sense on recumbents because there's room to fit everything and deal with the chain runs. Even there I haven't seen a neat, sane design yet.[1] But on a conventional bike it's very hard to get a good layout without increasing the bottom bracket to rear tyre distance or a frame design specifically for something like the Panasonic. And there's not a whole lot of room between the pedals to get a motor and reduction gearbox. Then there's the problem of getting enough freewheels in there so either the motor or pedals or both can freewheel at any time whether each is powered or not. And I'm not very comfortable with the safety aspects of having a freewheel in the chainrings.

[1] How about a centrally mounted Bafang rear hub motor with two sprockets fitted. One a fixed gear and one a freewheel. Run a chain from the freewheel to the front and from the fixed to the rear. Possible? By changing rear gears, you'd get roughly a 2:1-1:1 gearbox between the motor and rear for increased climbing torque. And gearing between the front chainsets and rear would be unchanged. When just pedalling, there's no more losses or drag than a rear hub motor. When under power with no pedalling, there's one extra freewheel in the system.