Storck Raddar
- Thread starter indalo
- Start date
It's been interesting following this thread and as I'm on showroom duty today, I have a chance to reply.
The Raddar system that Markus Storck has designed is totally unique. Rather than choose an existing e-bike sytem and building a bike frame around it, Markus decided to start with his proven and award winning City / commuting bikes. The Multitask (alloy frame) and Multiroad (carbon frame). Then design his own (Raddar) system to fit these frames.
The motor started off originally sourced from electric wheelchairs. Markus then re-designed the motor and designed a torque sensor to work in the motor and accept a shimano cassette, plus have a normal shimano axle length. The motors were originally sourced from the Far East. Not accepting the Quality standards from the Far East vendor, Markus found a company more local and who could provide the quality standards he required. This was a more expensive route but provided the high quality standards that Markus set. The motor is totally silent and free from vibration.
The Raddar motor provides a unique torque delivery. The torque curve is very flat and linear. You don't get a huge thump of torque when you start pedalling like some (crank drive) system. This torque continues to delivery right through the range of speed or hill incline. The sytem is also very smart by delivering up to 10% regen back into the battery when freewheeling or coasting. You don't have to touch the brakes to make this happen like some systems. This helps increase the range. I'ts no secret. Many testers who have ridden the Storck Raddar bikes comment how it delivers like a 36 volt system, yet without the extra weight and bulk.
Markus chose to fit the Multitask with Schwalbe Big Apple tyres over a front suspension fork. The tyres are developed for e-bikes and are less weight than a suspension fork.
Whilst it may not be for everyones taste (or pocket) or choice, both models ride like a normal bike as they are designed for cyclist by cyclist.
I hope this helps and happy to answer any questions.
Kind Regards,
Ian Hughes.
The Raddar system that Markus Storck has designed is totally unique. Rather than choose an existing e-bike sytem and building a bike frame around it, Markus decided to start with his proven and award winning City / commuting bikes. The Multitask (alloy frame) and Multiroad (carbon frame). Then design his own (Raddar) system to fit these frames.
The motor started off originally sourced from electric wheelchairs. Markus then re-designed the motor and designed a torque sensor to work in the motor and accept a shimano cassette, plus have a normal shimano axle length. The motors were originally sourced from the Far East. Not accepting the Quality standards from the Far East vendor, Markus found a company more local and who could provide the quality standards he required. This was a more expensive route but provided the high quality standards that Markus set. The motor is totally silent and free from vibration.
The Raddar motor provides a unique torque delivery. The torque curve is very flat and linear. You don't get a huge thump of torque when you start pedalling like some (crank drive) system. This torque continues to delivery right through the range of speed or hill incline. The sytem is also very smart by delivering up to 10% regen back into the battery when freewheeling or coasting. You don't have to touch the brakes to make this happen like some systems. This helps increase the range. I'ts no secret. Many testers who have ridden the Storck Raddar bikes comment how it delivers like a 36 volt system, yet without the extra weight and bulk.
Markus chose to fit the Multitask with Schwalbe Big Apple tyres over a front suspension fork. The tyres are developed for e-bikes and are less weight than a suspension fork.
Whilst it may not be for everyones taste (or pocket) or choice, both models ride like a normal bike as they are designed for cyclist by cyclist.
I hope this helps and happy to answer any questions.
Kind Regards,
Ian Hughes.
This is the thing. The Storcks are beautifully made, have good components and handle well, but the key feature is that the riding experience is just like on a normal bike - but easier. I'm not an e-bike expert, but I tried a variety (Trek, Freego, Raleigh, Oxygen, etc): none of them matched the Storck for giving the feeling that you could just get on and ride without being aware of some quirk that set them apart from normal cycling.
Don't believe the hype
Not really..... they have average or maybe even as they say on German pedelec, mediocre parts, certainly not Commensurate with the price. While the torque sensor is patented, the motor is from Switzerland and seems to share a lot of similarities, including low noise, good torque, heavy weight with the identical looking Go Swissdrive, now that is a real coincidence... This motor is used by many bikes now, only one available here directly being the Cube Epo. But the Simplon, Bulls green mover etc use it. all are 36v with choice of battery size from 10 -16 ah. I can get a bulls green mover for £1400 with 10ah battery or one of their higher spec models the copper head for just under £2500,18.8kg/13Ah/XT gearing etc.
I hate repeating myself but it seems necessary.
here is green mover cross disc @ £1700 Just to show that hub bikes are really developing from earlier noisy Chinese counterparts..they can now rival crankdrive bikes for quietness and torque
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69fRE53AgW4
Cube Epo. (funny ad at start)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuhZjiEOF0Y
Not really..... they have average or maybe even as they say on German pedelec, mediocre parts, certainly not Commensurate with the price. While the torque sensor is patented, the motor is from Switzerland and seems to share a lot of similarities, including low noise, good torque, heavy weight with the identical looking Go Swissdrive, now that is a real coincidence... This motor is used by many bikes now, only one available here directly being the Cube Epo. But the Simplon, Bulls green mover etc use it. all are 36v with choice of battery size from 10 -16 ah. I can get a bulls green mover for £1400 with 10ah battery or one of their higher spec models the copper head for just under £2500,18.8kg/13Ah/XT gearing etc.
I hate repeating myself but it seems necessary.
here is green mover cross disc @ £1700 Just to show that hub bikes are really developing from earlier noisy Chinese counterparts..they can now rival crankdrive bikes for quietness and torque
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69fRE53AgW4
Cube Epo. (funny ad at start)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuhZjiEOF0Y
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A few months ago, I questioned the price of Storck ebikes as I simply could not understand how the company selling them can charge so much for, on the face of it, so little.
The responses to that thread provided an interesting read, (well, I think they did!) but I remained unconvinced afterwards about the cost of those machines. Recently, I think I read somewhere that Storck are about to market their Raddar bikes with a Bosch power system. Also, it seems they are moving to 36V systems, (Bosch system requirement?)
I looked back at that thread and found this......I'll spare you most of the dealer's guff and highlight this comment:
Having cast my eye over one of their bikes again recently, I still can't see how they can ask almost 3K for a bike with very little about it to mark it out as special. Eddieo made the following points at that time and I really believe he's spot-on.
Now, not for a moment would I want anyone to think that I'm rubbishing Storck bikes. As it happens, I think they're pretty decent MTB-style machines but no way in the world are they worth the kind of money being asked. If they had a price tag placing them somewhere in the middle of the multitude of Bosch-powered machines now available, say £2000 for example, I could accept that but to charge people, give or take, an extra £1000 for a machine that cannot go places that the similarly-priced, full-sus Haibike takes in its stride is simply ludicrous.
It strikes me that by offering the same bike but with a Bosch power source, Storck are undermining the arguments they used in their advertising to mark out their own system as special. Perhaps they are attempting, a little belatedly I would suggest, to cover all bases in light of the success being enjoyed elsewhere since the introduction and adoption of the Bosch system and the forthcoming electric bikes from the quality manufacturers like Trek.
I'm reluctant to give our dear friend Frank from Banbury the oxygen of publicity but I'm certain he can provide a machine which will exceed the abilities of the Storck Raddar for half the money....and with a warranty. He's not the only one, I'm sure, as there are other bikes out there which are a match for the Storck, the Emotion Neo comes close and is about a grand cheaper.
In summary, I still don't get it Storck!
Indalo
The responses to that thread provided an interesting read, (well, I think they did!) but I remained unconvinced afterwards about the cost of those machines. Recently, I think I read somewhere that Storck are about to market their Raddar bikes with a Bosch power system. Also, it seems they are moving to 36V systems, (Bosch system requirement?)
I looked back at that thread and found this......I'll spare you most of the dealer's guff and highlight this comment:
Having cast my eye over one of their bikes again recently, I still can't see how they can ask almost 3K for a bike with very little about it to mark it out as special. Eddieo made the following points at that time and I really believe he's spot-on.
Now, not for a moment would I want anyone to think that I'm rubbishing Storck bikes. As it happens, I think they're pretty decent MTB-style machines but no way in the world are they worth the kind of money being asked. If they had a price tag placing them somewhere in the middle of the multitude of Bosch-powered machines now available, say £2000 for example, I could accept that but to charge people, give or take, an extra £1000 for a machine that cannot go places that the similarly-priced, full-sus Haibike takes in its stride is simply ludicrous.
It strikes me that by offering the same bike but with a Bosch power source, Storck are undermining the arguments they used in their advertising to mark out their own system as special. Perhaps they are attempting, a little belatedly I would suggest, to cover all bases in light of the success being enjoyed elsewhere since the introduction and adoption of the Bosch system and the forthcoming electric bikes from the quality manufacturers like Trek.
I'm reluctant to give our dear friend Frank from Banbury the oxygen of publicity but I'm certain he can provide a machine which will exceed the abilities of the Storck Raddar for half the money....and with a warranty. He's not the only one, I'm sure, as there are other bikes out there which are a match for the Storck, the Emotion Neo comes close and is about a grand cheaper.
In summary, I still don't get it Storck!
Indalo
OK Indalo, Please allow me to put a few facts straight.
The Storck Raddar Multitask RSP is £2499 Hardly £3,000.
The Raddar Raddar Motor is built under license to 3rd Party Manufactures. Although similar looking, (some of which have been referenced on this thread) the motors are NOT the same spec as the Storck Raddar Motor. They are heavier and less powerful (even though 36V) than the Storck Raddar Motor.
If you spend time doing a full component spec comparison (right down to spokes, rims, tyres etc) you will see that in fact the Storck Raddar e-bikes are Price / Spec competitive. You may struggle to compare the Storck Frame price as it’s custom made 7005 Alloy Tripple butted, or the Raddar motor (as no one else uses exactly the same motor). BTH, I have spent many years of my business life checking bike specs from all manufactures against SR Price points.
As the e-bike market develops and consumer trends widen, suppliers need to address these trends and offer product accordingly. The Bosch crank drive system is becoming more popular (Even exceeding Bosch forecasts) and a system Storck will offer alongside the Raddar Rear Hub Motor. Separately, to the 36 volt, The Raddar system will be updated to run 36 Volt early in 2013.
You mention Trek as a quality Manufacture. I agree. However, their Route-to-Market with their Bionx driven e-bikes was through Independent Bicycle Dealers over the past years. This route to Market was way too bold for the early developing UK market. Consequently, Trek have pulled their e-bikes out of the Market.
You mention other brands of e-bikes and their price. It’s the easiest business model for a UK Importer to buy bikes from the supplier, have no overheads, and sell direct on price, simple. I have seen this happen so often during my time in the Bicycle Business, Quick in – Quick out with no back up…. Simply ludicrous.
In Summary, not everyone will get Storck ….everyone has choice. But the most important thing is once you have made your choice …. Enjoy it
The Storck Raddar Multitask RSP is £2499 Hardly £3,000.
The Raddar Raddar Motor is built under license to 3rd Party Manufactures. Although similar looking, (some of which have been referenced on this thread) the motors are NOT the same spec as the Storck Raddar Motor. They are heavier and less powerful (even though 36V) than the Storck Raddar Motor.
If you spend time doing a full component spec comparison (right down to spokes, rims, tyres etc) you will see that in fact the Storck Raddar e-bikes are Price / Spec competitive. You may struggle to compare the Storck Frame price as it’s custom made 7005 Alloy Tripple butted, or the Raddar motor (as no one else uses exactly the same motor). BTH, I have spent many years of my business life checking bike specs from all manufactures against SR Price points.
As the e-bike market develops and consumer trends widen, suppliers need to address these trends and offer product accordingly. The Bosch crank drive system is becoming more popular (Even exceeding Bosch forecasts) and a system Storck will offer alongside the Raddar Rear Hub Motor. Separately, to the 36 volt, The Raddar system will be updated to run 36 Volt early in 2013.
You mention Trek as a quality Manufacture. I agree. However, their Route-to-Market with their Bionx driven e-bikes was through Independent Bicycle Dealers over the past years. This route to Market was way too bold for the early developing UK market. Consequently, Trek have pulled their e-bikes out of the Market.
You mention other brands of e-bikes and their price. It’s the easiest business model for a UK Importer to buy bikes from the supplier, have no overheads, and sell direct on price, simple. I have seen this happen so often during my time in the Bicycle Business, Quick in – Quick out with no back up…. Simply ludicrous.
In Summary, not everyone will get Storck ….everyone has choice. But the most important thing is once you have made your choice …. Enjoy it
I haven't tried one, but what matters to me is that people whose opinions I respect have been so highly impressed with the way in which the Storck Raddar bike operates. Even competitors like David Miall of Wisper have been very surprised and effusive with their praise, opinions like that from OTH above being commonplace.
I'm not prepared to believe they are all mistaken, it's clear that this bike is something out of the mainstream ordinary in e-biking so should be tried by anyone buying in that price area. As with every e-bike design ever made, it won't suit everyone as Ian says, but it certainly shouldn't be ignored.
As for those who add up the content and complain the sums don't match, they forget the little matter of synergy and judge by quantity rather than quality. It's their loss.
.
I'm not prepared to believe they are all mistaken, it's clear that this bike is something out of the mainstream ordinary in e-biking so should be tried by anyone buying in that price area. As with every e-bike design ever made, it won't suit everyone as Ian says, but it certainly shouldn't be ignored.
As for those who add up the content and complain the sums don't match, they forget the little matter of synergy and judge by quantity rather than quality. It's their loss.
.
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Hi, greetings to all - I'm new to the forum.
A couple of weeks ago my wife and I hired a Scott/Bosch and a Storck to ride around Whinlatter forest in the Lake District. It's quite a testing area with steep hills and gravel tracks. The Storck was quite good at first, seeming to match the Scott, but sadly the power dropped off and I ended up riding it with no assistance, not much fun at all! The Bosch system was fantastic, although enthusiastic riding soon breaks the 15mph barrier and the bike feels quite different without the power. I liked the smooth silent power of the Storck, but one of the joys of cycling is freewheeling down steep hills, standing on the pedals doing about 35mph and the Stork being DD needs a small amount of power to keep the motor running freely and if you don't pedal you can't have any power. A freewheel mode in the controller might solve this problem - it's not an uncommon complaint from what I've read.
A couple of weeks ago my wife and I hired a Scott/Bosch and a Storck to ride around Whinlatter forest in the Lake District. It's quite a testing area with steep hills and gravel tracks. The Storck was quite good at first, seeming to match the Scott, but sadly the power dropped off and I ended up riding it with no assistance, not much fun at all! The Bosch system was fantastic, although enthusiastic riding soon breaks the 15mph barrier and the bike feels quite different without the power. I liked the smooth silent power of the Storck, but one of the joys of cycling is freewheeling down steep hills, standing on the pedals doing about 35mph and the Stork being DD needs a small amount of power to keep the motor running freely and if you don't pedal you can't have any power. A freewheel mode in the controller might solve this problem - it's not an uncommon complaint from what I've read.
I remember getting one of them 'silent' cars and sitting at the traffic lights, letting the clutch out and not moving, the darn thing had stalled and I didn't know. Now I like the noise from my motor. It lets me know if I should be putting more effort in etc.
Linfitter.
Linfitter.
Yes, its a problem with all DD motors AFAIK. If you want the pleasure of riding unassisted to extend range or simply to get more exercise it will be denied to you with a DD motor.
I'm thinking of putting together a couple of different solutions - geared hub, DD hub and crank drive to see how they all work. We do have some very steep hills here and it may well be that only a crank drive will work well enough. I hired a Freego a few weeks ago and it really couldn't help much on a 1 in 5 hill. Then the battery ran out and I had to pedal it 6 miles back - the weight and higher gearing made that hard work considering how hilly it is - second time that's happened to me in the last month. Maybe a 500w 48v hub will be effective, I'm happy to work reasonably hard on hills. Of course, all this will cost me quite a lot of money and perhaps I should just buy a bosch system - I know it works well and suits me, more or less - but I do like messing about in the workshop (ex woodwork/metalwork teacher).
Exactly what I've found with most internally geared hub motor setups on 1 in 5 and steeper. The only satisfactory one is my bike with 20" rear wheel hub motor on 37 volts with a 30 Amp controller, net power over 700 watts. The crank drive Lafree I once owned and a similar Kalkhoff I tested had no trouble on any hill of course.
I live very near crystal palace and there are hills that I avoid like the plaque.... With my crankdrive bike I can comfortably climb ANYTHING and still cycle on when I get up there. not so fast on the flat so its simply a case of horses for courses. Centre drive bikes much more like normal cycling, OK you have to work harder but its more satisfying..
If your into the e biking lark you need one of both to be honest...
If your into the e biking lark you need one of both to be honest...
Now you tell me
. I think my bike budget is well over spent for this year at least !!!!.
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today I had to go to GP's on other side of crystal place for holiday jabs so its the Bosch (hills)Now you tell me
Yesterday to Croydon (flat) and its the Visper. no union jack on mine I ought to complain!
This has set me thinking I have ridden our Storck Multitask and Multiroad bike many times in all sorts of condition. My favourite have been in the Lake District. In all the riding I have done on our Raddar drive bikes, I have found very little drag from the regen system we have when freewheeling.
I plan to set up an experimement to establish how much drag the Raddar system produces on Freewheel with regen compared to the same bike with a normal rear wheel and cassette. This is very easy to do on our Multitask and Multiroad bikes as a normal rear wheel with cassette can easily be swapped over.
I will then find a descent (or 2 or 3 different lengths) and freewheel each version downhill in the same conditions and GPS monitor the speed and distance. I think it will be an interesting experiment to see how much drag a Raddar motor produces with regen compared to the same bike / rider / hill with a normal rear wheel? and get back to you with the results.
I have ridden our Storck Multitask and Multiroad bike many times in all sorts of condition. My favourite have been in the Lake District. In all the riding I have done on our Raddar drive bikes, I have found very little drag from the regen system we have when freewheeling.I plan to set up an experimement to establish how much drag the Raddar system produces on Freewheel with regen compared to the same bike with a normal rear wheel and cassette. This is very easy to do on our Multitask and Multiroad bikes as a normal rear wheel with cassette can easily be swapped over.
I will then find a descent (or 2 or 3 different lengths) and freewheel each version downhill in the same conditions and GPS monitor the speed and distance. I think it will be an interesting experiment to see how much drag a Raddar motor produces with regen compared to the same bike / rider / hill with a normal rear wheel? and get back to you with the results.
D
Deleted member 4366
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This is the one you want. Less than £500 for the kit and battery, and it'll get you up 1 in 5 without pedalling. It has a free-wheel so can be pedalled without power. Choose whatever donor bike you want:
Bafang BPM 48V500W Rear Driving Bike Conversion Kit - BMSBATTERY
I did buy a Spartamet motor assisted bike when I was living in Belgium some years ago, it was to enable my wife(ex) to accompany me on bike rides, later, I took it to Spain when we moved there and it was amazing how well it climbed hills - slowly, it's true and most of us could cycle faster - those were the days! To be honest, the Spartamet wasn't much fun to ride, I hardly ever rode it. Modern electric bikes are a totally different proposition and I'm looking forward to getting one and/or converting one of my bikes.
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