Stopped by police

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
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Following on from the "Furious cycling" discussion I came across the following link:

Criminal Solicitors UK - your online network of expert criminal law solicitors

This included the following:

"The bike should only be under power by means of a switch biased to the off position. The height of the saddle should be more than 635mm above ground level."

Doesn't this make electric recumbent illegal ?
Looks like it. This is the trouble with so much modern law vis a vis the complexities of the modern world, it inadvertantly makes so so many things unintentionally illegal. Representations to the DfT can and often do subsequently bring quotable wavers to cope with those, but for the most part we are able to rely on the common sense and/or lack of knowledge of the average police officer.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
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I wonder if Sir Clive Sinclair got such a waiver many years ago?
Good point, yes he did. That will make assisted recumbents legal too, assuming there's no motor power limit or speed restriction stopping that. I mention speed restriction since the C5 assist limit was I'm sure set at 12 mph, this being the same as the original e-bike assist limit in Britain in the 1980s. There's therefore just the possibility that the rise in th e-bike assist limit to 15 mph might not have applied to the C5 and in consequence, other assisted recumbents.
 

TylerD

Pedelecer
Jul 8, 2010
175
0
Not entirely disbelieving you, but most lawyers I know can spell prat - it is right there in the job description after all. Not entirely disagreeing with you either - my point would be that sometimes prattishness is called for in challenging authority and it is healthy for police officers to meet a well-informed prat occasionally.
prat/pratt/idiot-all three are correct.And just after riding through a red light is probably not the best time to be taking the moral high-ground
 

TylerD

Pedelecer
Jul 8, 2010
175
0
Small children perched above rear wheels in child seats or towed in trailers do indeed look vulnerable, to the point where we might fear for their safety.

But is there any evidence that they do in any way suffer accidents and injury?

I think not. In all my cycling years and with trade associated knowledge, I've never heard of a single accident involving them. That's probably due to road users taking additional care when they see children in these vulnerable circumstances.

Once again this may be an example of how we have become overly obsessive about child safety and protection.

Children often far prefer alternative transport to boring cars as I well know from the many young kids on the local estates who've begged rides in my large goods trailer on my return trips from recycling. In Holland and Denmark babies and small children are carried in a wide variety of manners on bikes, goods trikes and recumbents, often perched quite precariously or in open goods trailers without restraints, their enjoyment frequently self-evident. Adult safety obsessions all too often deprive children of experiences they are entitled to, and there's little doubt that today's children have impoverished lives compared with those of much older generations.

Life is only worthwhile if it has value, and the wider the experience, the more value a life has.
In principle I totally agree with you Flecc, in order to develop children have to be allowed a degree of freedom which I think is probably denied to a lot of them nowadays, certainly compared to my own childhood when my brother and I were free to roam unsupervised all day on our bikes.There are far too many daft rules nowadays , eg kids not being allowed to play conkers in the playground, but I think that it is a matter of degree and knowing where to draw the line. We certainly can't live risk free lives -we take risks every time we step foot outside the front door (and even when we don't)but there are degrees of risk and I think that the toddler I saw being towed behind his dad along a busy main road was being put at unacceptable risk. It may well be the case that on the continent there is more of a culture of children being towed or carried but that in itself may mean that the risk is less as motorists will be used to it and therefore possibly drive more carefully when passing.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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The risk is certainly there, but I cannot agree that it is an unacceptable risk when I'm unaware that there has ever been a recorded UK accident of a motor vehicle running into an occupied child trailer.

I think you'll agree that with the modern media, the anti-cycling majority motorists and hysteria about child safety, such an accident would have been shouted from the rooftops and we'd all have been aware of it.
 

TylerD

Pedelecer
Jul 8, 2010
175
0
I think you're right about the lack of accidents Flecc but I think that could be to do with the fact that cycling with children on board , at least on public roads, is not a particularly common practice in this country
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
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That's perfectly true, but recumbent trikes are even more rare on British roads and I am aware of some collisions between them and motor vehicles*. I think that there hasn't been any corresponding child trailer accident that I've heard of highlights the extreme care drivers take in the vicinity of child trailers. This is my sole point, the actuality against the high perceived risk of the very real vulnerability.

*Very unusually, on one of those the trike rider was subsequently fined for a "road rage" offence against the motor vehicle driver. Not something we normally expect!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
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I shudder every time I see a very young child being carried on a bike in traffic -last week I saw one who looked no more than 2 being towed behind his father's bike on a really busy main road. As cyclists we are totally vulnerable regardless of how good we are, that's something I accept- if I have an accident so be it. I have no right though to expose a child to that risk and would not dream of doing so. I'm talking here of public roads, not cycle paths.
Not a trailer but how about this cycling photo, three up on high without helmets, plus one helmetless with stabilisers alongside! (In Oxford)
.
 
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hihihi

Pedelecer
Sep 25, 2011
55
0
Isle Of Wight
Beautiful scene flecc. What a strong girl she must be too.

My only concern: rear tyre appears to need topping up.
 
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