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still not to sure what to make of bosch ebike system
- Thread starter footpump
- Start date
you may have to explain why the results are surprising.
I posted that same video on page 2 and got attacked by Col W.
http://pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/still-not-to-sure-what-to-make-of-bosch-ebike-system.28008/page-3#post-378539
I posted that same video on page 2 and got attacked by Col W.
http://pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/still-not-to-sure-what-to-make-of-bosch-ebike-system.28008/page-3#post-378539
The higher lactate levels suggest higher production of lactic acid at higher cadences. The broadly similar VO2 levels suggest similar amounts of work being done for each test (as you would expect).
So why is more lactic acid being produced at higher cadences for the same amount of work?
That's the surprise/question I'd like to know the answer to.
It was the naked scientists podcast I was thinking of:
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/interviews/pedalling-faster-easier
They tested that pedaling at a cadence of 110 is physiologically more efficient than pedaling at 70. Which doesn't really say anything about how either would compare to 90 [emoji3]
I'm trying to raise my cadence, which naturally goes to about 70, both to help with knee pain experienced as I was getting into my cycle commute, and get better assistance from the motor. Certainly my experience is 90 feels in the moment like it's much more effort, but over a 90 minute ride I emerge with much lower leg fatigue and lower heart rate through the ride. For me I'd say it must be less lactic acid production at higher cadence. But based purely on the feeling in my legs...
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https://www.thenakedscientists.com/articles/interviews/pedalling-faster-easier
They tested that pedaling at a cadence of 110 is physiologically more efficient than pedaling at 70. Which doesn't really say anything about how either would compare to 90 [emoji3]
I'm trying to raise my cadence, which naturally goes to about 70, both to help with knee pain experienced as I was getting into my cycle commute, and get better assistance from the motor. Certainly my experience is 90 feels in the moment like it's much more effort, but over a 90 minute ride I emerge with much lower leg fatigue and lower heart rate through the ride. For me I'd say it must be less lactic acid production at higher cadence. But based purely on the feeling in my legs...
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
An interesting counterpoint to the GCN video, though neither test were particularly scientific. Also perception of the rider doesn't necessarily correlate with actual test results (Si thought the slow cadence was hard going in the GCN vid despite the much lower lactate levels). Other than heart rate the nakedscientist report didn't seem to measure anything and rely on the feelings of the rider.
I think in your case upping your cadence to reduce knee pain makes sense (same work through more pedal turns equals less force required per turn tor the same speed and less force being transmitted through the knee).
Interesting as this all is, I'm just going to stick with what feels comfortable. None of us are Olympic cyclists after all; and besides we've got hooching great motors helping us along and as long as you are physically able to pedal I reckon any system would be fine.
If I'd known it was this complicated I'd never had dared to buy my Bosch powered bike! I just get on and pedal it, when I come to a hill I change down.
Er, that's it.
Mine does have a display with bars which show how much assistance I'm getting - which I find interesting.
I'm 65 and averagely fit, my route is full of hills and they are no problem.
I suggest that the main thing is to have a good test ride and make sure you find some steep hills, it will either suit you, or not.
Er, that's it.
Mine does have a display with bars which show how much assistance I'm getting - which I find interesting.
I'm 65 and averagely fit, my route is full of hills and they are no problem.
I suggest that the main thing is to have a good test ride and make sure you find some steep hills, it will either suit you, or not.
I believe you have hit the nail on the head sir. These bikes are somewhat complicated. The problem new riders have with them is simply not understanding what they have. This can be for many reasons including their previous bikes and riding style and/or not being educated by the dealer about how to get the best out of their new bike. This is not always the fault of the dealer as some people are too proud to admit they are struggling. Their best course of action is to go back to point of sale for some coaching or come here and ask questions. They will get answers and answers and answers. ..........................
'I believe you have hit the nail on the head sir.'
The original problem, I hope you don't mind me repeat it, is that on hills (and only on hills), user input becomes a limiting factor. If the user is less fit than the average, then he cannot coax the full power out of the motor, the maximum assist being x3 of his own effort.
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All electric bike systems, whether hub-motors or crank-drives, torque sensors or cadence sensors are complicated, yet, just like everything else, it's simple when you understand how they work. We do our best to help people understand. That's useful for some people.
I think the answer is much more simple, I ride mine like I would drive a car using the gears in exactly the same way, after all you are riding a motorized vehicle are you not? You would never attempt to set of on or drive up a hill in a high gear in a car or motorcycle so why would you do that on an electric bike?
The bigger the hill the lower the gear!
Works for me!
The bigger the hill the lower the gear!
Works for me!
That is where I think you are misrepresenting the Bosch system. Whilst the maximum assist is 3x (for my CX motor) you can still ride the bike up hills quite easily if you are far LESS fit than average (my 83 year old father for example). Obviously the motor is not producing it's full power, but it doesn't have to; enough to go up the hill is sufficient. Also being in the correct gear is, of course crucial.
It's my opinion you would have to be virtually incapable of walking, grossly obese or incapacitated in some way not to be able to pedal a Bosch motored bike. Furthermore I would say that for someone who wants to get back into cycling and/or improve their fitness a Bosch powered bike would be ideal. You have to put some effort in which would be beneficial in improving their breathing, leg strength and overall fitness and as weeks pass their improved fitness would enable them to get more out of their bike as a bonus. That's not gonna happen sat on your backside twisting a throttle.
the OP is quite experienced with e-bikes, it's not his first bike either.
He can climb hills OK with his Bosch bike except the very exceptionally steep ones.
On an easy hill for his other bike(s), he can't get the full power from his Bosch, that's his issue.
@ EmoRider: how would you / under which circumstance would you suggest to someone that a Bosch bike would be better for him than for example a Wisper torque that has a much more flexible power delivery?
I never said a bosch would be the best for him. In fact what I said was that I would never recommend a torque bike for someone with physical limitations. And yes, with the bosch system set on high you can pedal up a steep hill with little effort. Give it a try sometime and find out for yourself. Finally, I said the wisper was the everything bike as it had atorque and cadence setting with a throttle. I was agreeing with d8veh not recommending. Maybe a Wisper would be the bike for him. A test ride by the OP would be the best idea.
I get that, and I didn't say or imply that anything you said was wrong.
Note also that I did not disagree with what you posted either.
In one of your earlier posts, you talked about giving the right advice to customers. As I don't have Bosch bikes in my shop, I can't tell someone that 'in your case, the best advice I can give is to go for a Bosch bike' but can you suggest some conditions where a Bosch bike would be the best choice?
Like I and others repeat ad nausea, a test ride is the best way way to learn and determine what is best for an individual. You really should expand your paradigms by spending some time on a torque system. As you don't sell bosch or other torque systems my reply would be meaningless. Volumes have been already written about torque systems and who might and might not benifit from them already. Read, ride and learn is my best advice for you. The rest of my learned from experience advice is for my customers when they are choosing between a torque or cadence system.
That is rubbish.
He still had two more gears to drop, so the issue is in fact not using the gears available to him, and by the sound of it, not using the available power settings.
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he did say he tried all the available gears and still could not get better than 11mph.
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