State of e-bike technology?
- Thread starter Erik
- Start date
I think that the technology is up with the best, but that performance is restricted almost entirely by legislation.
The one area where technology is beginning to show improvements is in batteries, but only with regard to reductions in weight/size for a given range.
I'm about to make a brave move into the world of LiFePO4 battery technology, as I've decided that a 10Ah 36V LiFePO4 battery looks like the best option for me. This is relatively new battery technology, so although I'll most likely get about double the range for a given battery size over SLA batteries, reliability and life may not be much better.
I suspect that quite a few ebikes that are currently sold in the UK are technically illegal. Having now monitored the power consumption of my very low powered TongXin motor equipped recumbent on a test ride today I am even more convinced that the notional legal average power limit is regularly exceeded by many ebikes.
Jeremy
The one area where technology is beginning to show improvements is in batteries, but only with regard to reductions in weight/size for a given range.
I'm about to make a brave move into the world of LiFePO4 battery technology, as I've decided that a 10Ah 36V LiFePO4 battery looks like the best option for me. This is relatively new battery technology, so although I'll most likely get about double the range for a given battery size over SLA batteries, reliability and life may not be much better.
I suspect that quite a few ebikes that are currently sold in the UK are technically illegal. Having now monitored the power consumption of my very low powered TongXin motor equipped recumbent on a test ride today I am even more convinced that the notional legal average power limit is regularly exceeded by many ebikes.
Jeremy
I think it's beyond suspicion, and that virtually all ebikes break the regulations. The law doesn't actually mention average power, just stating "maximum continuous" power. It's that word "continuous" that gives the ambiguity enabling it to be interpreted as average power over time. In UK law it's 200 watts maximum continuous, in EU law, 250 watts continuous for two wheelers.
In fact there is no EU law as such for e-bikes, just an exemption from the tougher regulations that apply to some slightly higher power machines. Two wheel bikes with no more than 250 watts maximum continuous power, with the motor unable to drive above 25 kph, and cutting power when pedalling stops earning the exemption.
Step forward the bikes with the Panasonic units and take a bow, probably the only legal machines, since most of the others can put out well over that 200/250 watts for much longer than my testing patience could endure.
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Point taken, flecc, but average power is the only thing that's easy to measure. I found that my little TongXin motor, being used fairly sparingly, averaged about 260 watts today, albeit on mixed terrain with some modest hills.
The give away on power actually used is the range people get. 260 watts from a 36V 10Ah pack (360 Wh), at an average speed of 15mph, gives a range of just under 21 miles, which seems pretty typical. Anyone getting less than this from a similar Wh pack is almost certainly drawing an average power of greater than 260 watts.
The above sum is a bit unfair in my case, as my average speed today was actually 18.4mph, but I know that my 'bent is a fair bit faster for a given power input than an upright.
Jeremy
The give away on power actually used is the range people get. 260 watts from a 36V 10Ah pack (360 Wh), at an average speed of 15mph, gives a range of just under 21 miles, which seems pretty typical. Anyone getting less than this from a similar Wh pack is almost certainly drawing an average power of greater than 260 watts.
The above sum is a bit unfair in my case, as my average speed today was actually 18.4mph, but I know that my 'bent is a fair bit faster for a given power input than an upright.
Jeremy
Yes, that's perfectly true Jeremy. In legal terms this is a mess though, the "continuous" not having any definition and the law not couched in terms of what happens on the road, just the bald statement of maximum continuous power.
It would have been much more sensible to draft the law in maximum assist speed terms only, since that is clearly defined and easily checked, leaving designers to determine the optimum powers for that purpose. In effect that is what has happened, since almost all of them can pump out more than the legal wattage limits on a continuous basis for days, weeks, months nonstop if the batteries are available, the designs paying more attention to limiting the maximum assist speeds.
That less strict legal approach would work anyway, since range is important enough an issue for that to tend to limit the powers for the forseeable future.
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Many elements of the technology are very up to date as Jeremy has said, but by no means all. In terms of the whole UK e-bike scene, I've remarked before that it compares with the motor industry of the 1920s at present.
By that I mean there was no settled format for a car in the way we see today, the quality of the products was very variable and generally poor and the laws relating to them were few and ill defined, traffic law often horse carriage law and unworkable. As with e-bikes, no qualification was needed, and driving licences could be bought by anyone at Post Office counters. There was no real marketing model, and much of the retail trade was of doubtful quality, in many cases ranging from a shambles to downright dishonesty.
We can recognise many elements of that in our scene today, but fortunately we won't have to wait well over three more decades for improvement as car customers had to.
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I don't see electric bike development ever attracting anywhere near the investment level being put into cars and computers as the potential market is simply too small. Everyone wants a car, most people need a computer but very few people have any interest in an electric bike, regardless of how technologically advanced or how cheap it may be.
It is interesting to note that Powabykes are probably the best selling e-bikes despite being amongst the least technologically advanced, reinforcing what Flecc has just said about marketing models and showing that this can be more important than the technology.
It is interesting to note that Powabykes are probably the best selling e-bikes despite being amongst the least technologically advanced, reinforcing what Flecc has just said about marketing models and showing that this can be more important than the technology.
I agree, and in fact there is a very real risk that e-bikes could virtually disappear in the way that other two wheel variants did in the past. We had the post WW2 Autocycles like the Excelsior which disappeared, and then the Cyclemotor attachments which did the same, partnered into obscurity by the Bubblecars. These were all vastly more popular than e-bikes are, but it didn't save them from vanishing. The Scooter/Moped that was once everywhere is less popular now, most youngsters preferring to go straight to a car.
The only thing that sustains the e-bike market is the level of sales in China, but as they grow more affluent, and the number of cars there is increasing exponentially, e-bikes will be dropped in favour of the car.
I certainly wouldn't bet on there being a visible e-bike market in this country in 15 years time, but I would bet on Chinese cars being sold here then.
I would be more inclined to bet on there being very few cars of any make on the roads in 15 years time. If they are still there they won't be user driven. I would lay money on roads having power strips of some sort and cars being powered from them and guided by them. Petrol will be a rare and precious commodity.
I agree and disagree Tony!
The electric car is just about with us now, only held up for the last two years by lithium battery development delays in the same way that some e-bikes have suffered. Those problems are now being surmounted, and the Smart Fortwo E and Mitsubishi "i" car electric variants are ready to hit the market as those batteries arrive. The big boys like Ford are right on their heels, and many industry seniors predict the mass produced e-car from about 2010 on.
Since even todays crude electric cars have a longer range and better performance than e-bikes, and free charging points for them are already here in places, that's what people are likely to be travelling around in for local journeys, given our climate.
They will even attract those who use e-bikes on environmental grounds, and with a lot more "green" electricity around in 15 years time, the e-bike could have fewer attractions than at present.
Maybe this will be the Elecar forum then.
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Well well - we have the makings of a nice little discussion here.
I can remember (just) country farming folk declaring that farm horses would "always be around." And tractors were a new fangled affair that would "never catch on."
When you look at the mpg of many cars, I feel the challenge will be to make cars more effecient. My smart does 86mpg but it will always be a commuter car only. You carn't take a family of four out in it to the seaside or anything like that. It will always be a 2nd car in my view. Even though it is the future.
Just look at the problems it solves, parking alone in the city !
Just look at the problems it solves, parking alone in the city !
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Yes, but they were already wrong Tony, since traction engines had been working the land for nearly a hundred years using two different methods, and they were just being blind to that fact.
Most people in 15 years time will still be driving cars, though many will be battery powered electric variants, and I really do think the e-bike is a threatened species, the examples I gave illustrating that. They were infinitely more popular than e-bikes are, cyclemotors alone reaching over a million on the road in the UK, but they vanished with astonishing speed, like the autocycles and commonplace bubblecars.
The car is king, and sorry, but those who deny that are in the position of those farm workers.
I can't see those "powerstrips" arriving for then, since on present progress the potholes we've got now won't be mended yet.
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I had to rule out the Smart last month Bob, since I needed a car that was narrow enough to get my bikes in and out of the garage without moving the car and vice versa.. The Smart's 5' 2" plus mirrors made that marginal, but the Chevrolet Matiz I bought instead was 4' 11", making it ok for the job. The fact that the top of the range model was less than half the Smart price helped.
Like your's it's just a townmobile, for me mainly a very bad weather tin umbrella
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M
mk1
Guest
I thought of two cars, but my solution is more green I think. The Matiz is now my sole car, not a second one, and for the occasional longer trip I'll hire something suitable.
Since hire cars work most of the time and have high utilisation, far fewer are needed to meet the population's distance travel requirements, probably only half as many.
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M
mk1
Guest
I have a greener solution. You could use a bicycle for everyday use and hire a car for longer trips.
Martin
Nobody uses a bike more for day to day use than me Martin, including heavy load carrying and two or three battery long trips. But as posted above, for the worst weather I want a motorised tin umbrella.I have a greener solution. You could use a bicycle for everyday use and hire a car for longer trips.
Martin
To illustrate that, I bought the car at the beginning of January and ran around for 32 miles straight after collection to familiarise myself with it.
Now, nearly two months later, it's reached the total reading of 65 miles on the clock.
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