Sprocket wear

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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4,290
That's crazy. You don't weigh 50 stones. Do you jump over hedges often?

I expect my cassette on a 20" wheel, will last a bit longer than @egroover 's.
Yep, I strongly suspect bike was built without any lubrication on bearings?? Had an argument with them too. Took bike back with noisy front bearing, picked it up 4 days later... Making same noise. Their argument "bearings shouldn't wear out so quick so we greased them"
Words were exchanged, .. They asked dumb question"Have you pressure washed the bike? "
" Why, yes, of course, I love to remove all lubrication from bearings"
They changed hubs and bearings front and back.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,833
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my haibike was bone dry and no Loctite anywhere killed the head set bearings in no time as cheap crap dont help and lost one of the pivot bolts £45 :mad:

you would think the price they want for these things they would at least put it together right but nope and if i did buy another one id strip it to the frame and start from scratch ;)
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,301
3,213
Yep, I strongly suspect bike was built without any lubrication on bearings?? Had an argument with them too. Took bike back with noisy front bearing, picked it up 4 days later... Making same noise. Their argument "bearings shouldn't wear out so quick so we greased them"
Words were exchanged, .. They asked dumb question"Have you pressure washed the bike? "
" Why, yes, of course, I love to remove all lubrication from bearings"
They changed hubs and bearings front and back.
Nobody should accept such attitude after spending a million pounds on a Haibike. When you collected your wheels, I do hope you asked for fork handles


Dahons have sealed bearing hubs ;)
 
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
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winora owns haibike and a shed load of other bike brands as well and use crap components like bearings no grease or locktight to keep costs down :D

seems every ebike with a shitmano hub dont last 5 mins as there like 25 quid for the hub :rolleyes:
 
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egroover

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Aug 12, 2016
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;)
£199 for a cassette ? Mugs game, switch to a cheap 9 speed setup, £60 the full setup, cassette, chain, rear mech and shifter, nobody needs 12 speeds on an ebike...I'd be riding it around in first gear only frightened to changed gear with the motor turned on with that wafer thin cassette !
 
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Sturmey

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Jan 26, 2018
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............saying crank drives inherently wear out drive components by default is wrong........
Hi. I would not worry too much about this. Its all about choice.
There are some choices and mechanical setups that some people find unacceptable for not only ebikes but for bikes in general. For example, some people find the use of the exposed chains and derailleur gears unacceptable and would hope for greater availability of belt drives. Similarly, some find 'v brakes' to inherently need too much adjustment. (My brother for example bought a gazelle with chaincase, internal hub gears and drum brakes as he wanted as little maintenance as possible)
There is an old expression 'There are Horses for Courses' and some setups work better for some people in particular circumstances.
I have both a middrive and a hub bike. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Certainly, one of the strengths of the hub motor is that it delivers its assistance independently of the chain and sprocket. My present winter bike (front hub) is still on its original sprockets at 21500 Km. It has used about 6 chains worn to about .7%. It will no longer take any new chains now without jumping on the smaller cogs so I am reusing all the (part-worn) chains now. (chain rotation plan, putting worn chains on worn sprockets).
 
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
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if i wore it out in 12 months id go the cheaper option but seems i can make it work and last even with a dongle and cx motor as long as i keep it clean and lubed and change chain at 0.50.

also over the years i have learned how and when to change gear but over 30mph you have to back off change and then back on the power or it goes bang bang bang up and down if i dont.

that's why i want eshift and a button and rid of that bloody cable as it will go out of index if i dont bother with it for to long.
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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My present winter bike (front hub) is still on its original sprockets at 21500 Km. It has used about 6 chains worn to about .7%. It will no longer take any new chains now without jumping on the smaller cogs so I am reusing all the (part-worn) chains now. (chain rotation plan, putting worn chains on worn sprockets).
Your sprockets have really lasted! Is that 2,226.6 miles per chain so far? If so, that's about 698.6 miles further than the 1,528+ miles my last chain managed with mid-drive bbs01b. It was almost 0.75% at 1,528 miles, changed at 0.75% after some more miles I didn't keep note of, perhaps about 140 miles further? I really should have kept track! Initially, there seemed to be no jumping off cogs with the new chain, then there was (smallest one, 11 teeth)... but not after liberal application of Hypoid 90 and about 72 miles of the new chain wearing to the old cassette.
 
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WheezyRider

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 20, 2020
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My handebars are 80cm wide - it's dodgy eyesight: Central Serous Retinopathy - weirdly, I'm allowed to drive, but I'd rather not. I don't ride for the first 30 minutes after waking, when there are big black blobs all over the world. Central vision varies in warp in each eye, which does affect balance a little, certainly enough to affect balance on my bike. Anyone who works with LED lit screens should use a UV filter: CSR is the new RSI for IT workers - previously it was mostly airline pilots who got CSR.

Self-test for CSR and macular degeneration:

Sorry to hear that, hope it doesn't get any worse. Are your handlebars completely straight as seems to be the fashion now with mountain bike handlebars? I find them very uncomfortable and don't give you good control on roads.
 

WheezyRider

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 20, 2020
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Hi. I would not worry too much about this. Its all about choice.
There are some choices and mechanical setups that some people find unacceptable for not only ebikes but for bikes in general. For example, some people find the use of the exposed chains and derailleur gears unacceptable and would hope for greater availability of belt drives. Similarly, some find 'v brakes' to inherently need too much adjustment. (My brother for example bought a gazelle with chaincase, internal hub gears and drum brakes as he wanted as little maintenance as possible)
There is an old expression 'There are Horses for Courses' and some setups work better for some people in particular circumstances.
I have both a middrive and a hub bike. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Certainly, one of the strengths of the hub motor is that it delivers its assistance independently of the chain and sprocket. My present winter bike (front hub) is still on its original sprockets at 21500 Km. It has used about 6 chains worn to about .7%. It will no longer take any new chains now without jumping on the smaller cogs so I am reusing all the (part-worn) chains now. (chain rotation plan, putting worn chains on worn sprockets).
Front wheel drive for a winter bike? Are you running studded tyres?

I agree with what you say about personal taste and horse for courses. I have tried mid drives, but personally, I don't like the feel of them. It doesn't feel like I'm riding a bike. Maybe if I rode one for a long time I would get used to it...but having a rear hub just feels so natural to me and if I want more torque I can mod it as necessary to get it, even with a "250" W motor (I will never want to ride up Mt Everest with my bike, so I don't need enormous torque). Everything is relatively cheap and generic and quite easy to replace, so if you break something, it doesn't burn a hole in your pocket.

Another thing is that it is a joke that mid drives call their motors "250" W. They are not, they are at least 750, just labelled as 250.

I don't want to sound too negative about mid drives, they are good, but for me they don't tick the right boxes.
 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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Sorry to hear that, hope it doesn't get any worse.
It's like a blister in the fovea, it reduced in my left eye for a time, then returned, and each time lines became more warped in the middle... but when looking at straight lines with both eyes, the brain straightens them out. Far away objects of unknown shape, are harder for the brain to correct, hence balance isn't as good as it used to be. If it persists (how long is undefined), the prognosis is pretty bad. No treatment for it, no cause anyone knows of, but I'm pretty sure it's caused by stress and squinting at LED backlit monitors for long periods of time. Occupational hazard. Oddly, I believe jogging helps keeps it at bay.

Are your handlebars completely straight as seems to be the fashion now with mountain bike handlebars? I find them very uncomfortable and don't give you good control on roads.
That's an interesting thought - my handlebars are straight, I may look into it (but they may look warped in the middle :D ).
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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if I want more torque I can mod it as necessary to get it, even with a "250" W motor
I'm guessing you'd increase the amps? Legal, I suppose, as the motor only has to be rated by the manufacturer as 250W... I'm seriously considering converting a Montague folding bike sometime, and if I do, may prefer the simplicity of a rear hub.







...or I could stick with Bafang mid-drive:


 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
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Hi. I would not worry too much about this. Its all about choice.
There are some choices and mechanical setups that some people find unacceptable for not only ebikes but for bikes in general. For example, some people find the use of the exposed chains and derailleur gears unacceptable and would hope for greater availability of belt drives. Similarly, some find 'v brakes' to inherently need too much adjustment. (My brother for example bought a gazelle with chaincase, internal hub gears and drum brakes as he wanted as little maintenance as possible)
There is an old expression 'There are Horses for Courses' and some setups work better for some people in particular circumstances.
I have both a middrive and a hub bike. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Certainly, one of the strengths of the hub motor is that it delivers its assistance independently of the chain and sprocket. My present winter bike (front hub) is still on its original sprockets at 21500 Km. It has used about 6 chains worn to about .7%. It will no longer take any new chains now without jumping on the smaller cogs so I am reusing all the (part-worn) chains now. (chain rotation plan, putting worn chains on worn sprockets).
I totally agree with all this. If you look back I was not suggesting hub drives no not have their place and benefits. They obviously do, but they also have their drawbacks, specifically the hub motor does not have access to the range of gearing a crank drive does. To my way of thinking that makes them at best unsuited to mtb.
On the other hand some posters were writing off crank drive with exaggerated tales of wear.
As you say, horses for courses. If you need a bike to give its best on gnarly steep climbs and yet still be suited on gravel, single track and road you need crank drive.
If you never go near steep, stony, root infested off road climbs and spend your time commuting or on tarmac/dressed tracks of course hub may work fine. But to be honest I,m not convinced that even there the crank drive isn't better suited. Wife has a step through Raleigh /Bosch crank drive,nice narrow tyres, sit up and beg Type seating and hub gears. (very wide range) It's awesome on road. Don't see how hub drive could compete with it.
Sometimes there is a solution to mechanical issues that simply works and works better than probably all others. In my humble opinion that solution for ebike is crank drive. The other solutions are simply trying to emulate performance offered. Hub drives are simple, cheap, and available. Crank drive does give better performance on equal power availability. ie) If you compare like with like, same power motor, same battery size, then crank drive will give better performance. I, m afraid that is simply a fact, no matter how much folk defend hub drives. And, yes, you may pay for that improved performance with extra drive train wear. That is also a fact.
 
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georgehenry

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2015
1,446
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Surrey
Now I see, its not a cut and shut design like The Woosh. I use my rear rack and would need to put the battery somewhere else without there being many obvious possibilities.
 

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,301
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Now I see, its not a cut and shut design like The Woosh. I use my rear rack and would need to put the battery somewhere else without there being many obvious possibilities.
I agree - mine is on the rear rack, and although I did find bags which secure over the battery, that's not ideal.

I was wondering whether underneath uspide down on the frame horizontally would work? Otherwise:

 

WheezyRider

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 20, 2020
1,690
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I totally agree with all this. If you look back I was not suggesting hub drives no not have their place and benefits. They obviously do, but they also have their drawbacks, specifically the hub motor does not have access to the range of gearing a crank drive does. To my way of thinking that makes them at best unsuited to mtb.
On the other hand some posters were writing off crank drive with exaggerated tales of wear.
As you say, horses for courses. If you need a bike to give its best on gnarly steep climbs and yet still be suited on gravel, single track and road you need crank drive.
If you never go near steep, stony, root infested off road climbs and spend your time commuting or on tarmac/dressed tracks of course hub may work fine. But to be honest I,m not convinced that even there the crank drive isn't better suited. Wife has a step through Raleigh /Bosch crank drive,nice narrow tyres, sit up and beg Type seating and hub gears. (very wide range) It's awesome on road. Don't see how hub drive could compete with it.
Sometimes there is a solution to mechanical issues that simply works and works better than probably all others. In my humble opinion that solution for ebike is crank drive. The other solutions are simply trying to emulate performance offered. Hub drives are simple, cheap, and available. Crank drive does give better performance on equal power availability. ie) If you compare like with like, same power motor, same battery size, then crank drive will give better performance. I, m afraid that is simply a fact, no matter how much folk defend hub drives. And, yes, you may pay for that improved performance with extra drive train wear. That is also a fact.
I mostly agree with you, I do like the idea of mid drive as it allows you to have geared hubs instead of derailleurs. However, for me, a proper mid drive should have the crank separate from the motor. The motor should have its own drive train and not interfere with the rider at all. I also don't like the way mid drive motors tend to be installed. They should be a lot better at cooling than hubs, but they are often badly designed and heat can't get out as well as it should.

Another issue about the cost is that it makes them attractive for theft. A kid in my street saw me on my bikes and was keen to get into pedelecs. He went out and used all his savings and bought a really nice mid drive for more than £3.5k. He had it a couple of months, then he got mugged by 5 yobs and ended up in hospital. Some of these mid drives are worth serious money and it can make you a target. Yobs see me on my home made hub contraption and they ignore me, maybe poke fun...but I'm the one who is laughing :) I would not be able to justify losing serious money on a bike if it got stolen. Ok, you can be insured, but then your premiums go up as soon as anything happens.

Then there is the issue of how proprietary most mid drives are. Systems locked down so after a short number of years you may as well buy a new bike, just because of a battery or motor issue.

So for me mid drives, nice, but I'll stick to hubs for now.
 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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So for me mid drives, nice, but I'll stick to hubs for now.
You may not have tried the right mid-drive yet, or one set up to suit you - Bafang have adopted CAN bus for their newer models, but the bbsXX(X) series, although not open, the protocol has been hacked, controllers can be customised; third party batteries can be used even without firmware adjustments... and even if they cease to make them, there are so many in use clones will pop up all over the place, for many years of spare parts. At least, I bloody well hope so. Nature abhors a vacuum, spare parts will find a way...
 
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