Spot the difference...

[flecc]

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", or as attributed to Emperor Marcus Antoninus in a conversation with himself, "You should consider that imitation is the most acceptable part of worship".

I wonder if Woosh was derived from the word worship.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

There are quite a few e-bikes on the market which are similar to the two under discussion.

Here's another: Volt Pulse Hybrid Electric Bike, Electric Bike Store

I think passing off is a non-starter, products aiming for the same market will inevitably look similar.

Medium sized hatchback cars is a good example.

And beware the chicken and egg situation.

Woosh might say the Wisper is an over-priced clone of their bike.

You are probably right Rob, but it would be fun to look into it and there are many distinct attempts at passing off, most are rather feeble though. Is it a coincidence that the copy bike black?

I think they may have a problem turning the tables, we sold our first Wisper 905e about seven years ago!

To be honest, I don't know why I am being drawn into this thread, we have had so many dodgy companies flatter us with copies over the years I have become quite relaxed about it.

All the best

David

 

[Old_Dave]

I'm wondering if the phrase "A better mouse trap" as coined by Ralph Waldo Emerson in the late nineteenth century could apply

 

[eddieo]

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", or as attributed to Emperor Marcus Antoninus in a conversation with himself, "You should consider that imitation is the most acceptable part of worship".

I wonder if Woosh was derived from the word worship.

need not worry the lazy copyist's have set up a trotter stylee market stall in Peckham along with cyclezee

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I have always loved the phrase Dave and try and live my business life by following it. Hence the constant changes and improvements over the last seven years. There are several great mousetraps available now, and we strive to stay at least in line with them!

All the best

David

 

[Hackney Andy]

David,

My 4 year old wisper is doing fine. I bought the bike second hand a year ago from this forum from someone who didn't use it much but obviously looked after the battery, as I've used it almost every day since and I can still get over 30 miles range (and I weigh 18 stone!). I had to have the wheel rebuilt with washers on the spoke heads as a mismatch with the motor holes meant spokes breaking continuously. Other than that I've had a failed throttle (which I replaced), the ignition switch failed (which I 'hot wired') and the brake cut outs no longer work (but I don't feel as if I need them). Overall I'm extremely happy with it, but then I would be as I only paid £250 for it!

Regards

Andy

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Great to hear Andy, sounds like you got a bargain!

All the best and good luck on the bike!

David

 

[Deleted member 4366]

need not worry the lazy copyist's have set up a trotter stylee market stall in Peckham along with cyclezee

Brilliant! Do you think they might let me sell some of the junk from my shed on it. I need a bit more space for my next build.

Actualy it's not junk, it's "Junque" (said with a French accent). It's better quality than normal junk - similar to the difference between a Cyclamatic and a Speciallized Crosstrail.

 

[eddieo]

Now yo are being stupid (nothing new there!) I am sure they will be happy to.....they have a number of skips as well

 

[morphix]

You are probably right Rob, but it would be fun to look into it and there are many distinct attempts at passing off, most are rather feeble though. Is it a coincidence that the copy bike black?

I think they may have a problem turning the tables, we sold our first Wisper 905e about seven years ago!

To be honest, I don't know why I am being drawn into this thread, we have had so many dodgy companies flatter us with copies over the years I have become quite relaxed about it.

All the best

David

I think when it comes to applying the passing off law, Whisper has a good case and I'll explain why..

Firstly, the design of the frame has several characteristics which are a direct copy or very close copy of Whispers design (which may even be a patent infringement). This is obviously intended for no other purpose than to make it LOOK like a Whisper bike or just to make a bike with a proven reliable design, without the R&D costs Whisper has already incurred. Why else would they copy those features so closely? So there's a strong legal argument that these manufacturers (and the UK resellers) are exploiting the design (and associated investment), the businesses "goodwill" factor, and mature brand recognition that Whisper has established in the UK marketplace.

If we were talking about chocolate bars it might be a different story..but we are talking about a complex and high value product which has all the associated technical and safety issues etc.. If someone sees these Whisper clones they might be inclined to think, "ah, a cheaper Whisper bike, I'll buy that and save a lot of money instead of the original Whisper"..when as David said, although the bikes might look the same, mechanically and electronically, they're very different. How are consumers to know this? They might also be left with the impression because of the big price difference that Whisper bikes are just the same Chinese imported bikes but over-priced and a rip-off. That obviously could damage Whispers brand and reputation/ability to sell bikes, just having these similar cheaper clones in the marketplace. And what if one of these cheaper clones developed a serious fault or caused a serious accident? People might attribute that to the design failing in the actual Whisper bikes too, with them being so similar, which could be potentially very damaging.

I think you have to weigh up all the factors and the potential for damage to Whisper and the brand, plus consumer confusion in the marketplace.

Whisper could get a Court injunction much like Samsung got against Apple, which forces sellers to put on all their advertising "This is not a Whisper bike. It does have the specification or performance of a Whisper bike";-)

 

[RoadieRoger]

I can`t believe what I`m reading under this topic .We have a comparison of two machines , one cheaper and the other more than twice the price and the sixth reply is talking of legal action . Both Organisations are Members of this Forum , so whatever the merits of the machines they both appeal to people that may wish to join our ranks . The Sirocco might well tempt someone to try an Ebike while the price of the Wisper might have the opposite effect . What about one of the London based Test Pilots having each for a week and reporting on their experiences . I vote for Eddieo as he doesn`t pull any punches .

 

[the_killjoy]

I wonder if the batteries are interchangeable ?

 

[RobF]

I doubt a test would reveal much other than the brand prejudice of the rider.

Both bikes will ride nicely when shiny and new.

The real test is in a few years when one bike might still be giving stalwart service, and the other might be off the road more often than it's on.

 

[morphix]

I can`t believe what I`m reading under this topic .We have a comparison of two machines , one cheaper and the other more than twice the price and the sixth reply is talking of legal action . Both Organisations are Members of this Forum , so whatever the merits of the machines they both appeal to people that may wish to join our ranks . The Sirocco might well tempt someone to try an Ebike while the price of the Wisper might have the opposite effect . What about one of the London based Test Pilots having each for a week and reporting on their experiences . I vote for Eddieo as he doesn`t pull any punches .

I see your point and I'm all for cheaper bikes and more choice for consumers...but this comes to down to ethics.. try to put yourself in the position of Whisper and the individuals behind it who have put a chunk of their life into that business, invested loads of their own capital and took on the costs and risk of designing and bringing that product to market... wouldn't you be slightly peeved to see someone bringing out a copy of your product and then UK businesses actually selling it on your doorstep.

There's nothing to stop them making a black e-bike but does it have to look exactly like a Whisper?

 

[Caph]

Thanks Morfix, unless the frames are practically identical we would not win the case. I understand the thinking behind the way some Chinese companies are trying to cash in on our success. (I must point out that not all Chinese electric bike companies are the same and most would never stoop so low.) It is an easy way into the market, some go as far as to say that they manufacture Wiper bikes and others have the cheek to say they actually designed the bike! I was rather embarrassingly asked to leave an exhibition in Shanghai a couple of years ago when a guy told me that he had designed the frame and Wisper had nothing to do with it. The exchange that followed was to say the least "frank and short" also a little to loud for the security guards comfort. They did apologise in the end and let me go on my merry way!

I find the best way to deal with is to be the best at what we do. You must also consider that they are starting from a position where they have to be cheaper than us.... or what's the point? So they cannot possibly use the same components, if they did the bikes would cost as much if not more than a genuine Wisper. I have to content myself with being a little smug when I see another Chinese firm trying to copy what we have spent seven years perfecting. That is shaded with a little disappointment when I see an otherwise reputable British firm resorting to such tactics. All I can imagine is that they are having a tough time.

Anyone that had the budget to buy a genuine Wisper would never buy one of these clones, so like Rolex we simply let them get on with it. I don't think we actually lose any business. And one day perhaps they will be able to afford a real Wisper

All the best

David

I know one UK ebike manufacturer who went to visit the Chinese manufacturer that you ended up buying from. He walked away from the deal because of too many quality problems that I believe you walked straight into! All sorted now of course.

Are the Wisper bikes no longer made by said Chinese firm?

 

[RoadieRoger]

Yes Morphix I agree with your reasoning but how do we know that this particular machine is a copy . Bicycles since the Penny Farthing have tended to look the same with two wheels and a frame with small variations here and there . In the pictures I looked at ,the Sirocco seems to have a more substantial frame , in particular the more generous gusset where the top frame meets the stem . The ones that do seem different are the Tonaros in my view .

 

[eddieo]

Blind allegiance to any make is short sighted, there are far better bikes out there then most of us ride, but they are not cheap......feel nervous enough leaving my bikes locked up when out and about as it is.

a test ride is surely enough one would hope, plus some research into support..At least with a Wisper you know they will still be in business next year

 

[funkylyn]

I see your point and I'm all for cheaper bikes and more choice for consumers...but this comes to down to ethics.. try to put yourself in the position of Whisper and the individuals behind it who have put a chunk of their life into that business, invested loads of their own capital and took on the costs and risk of designing and bringing that product to market... wouldn't you be slightly peeved to see someone bringing out a copy of your product and then UK businesses actually selling it on your doorstep.

There's nothing to stop them making a black e-bike but does it have to look exactly like a Whisper?

Paul...believe me nothing much has to be changed to make a 'copy' perfectly legal.
As a knitwear designer I know for a fact that if only 4 stitches are changed in a pattern it is deemed to be not a copy.

I can still remember around 8 years ago when wisper bikes had an horrendous reputation and they have worked hard to rise above that.
Like in most walks of life people have to make their own choices regarding paying for higher quality or not and I have to admit that most chinese derivatives look very similar to me at first glance, its what the importer specifies regarding higher quality spec that counts.

After all, a bike is a bike at first glance, there arent that many opportunities to make them look that much different to each other.

Lynda

 

[jazper53]

Wisper's reputation is well establised now with many fans of their models. I have yet to read anything about the Sirocco 2 outside trade advertisement etc, still waiting for genuine reviews

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I know one UK ebike manufacturer who went to visit the Chinese manufacturer that you ended up buying from. He walked away from the deal because of too many quality problems that I believe you walked straight into! All sorted now of course.

Are the Wisper bikes no longer made by said Chinese firm?

Hi Caph, we have moved to from China to Germany now, in pursuit of excellence!

That is not to say we would never consider China again. A new generation of young Chinese business people are emerging full of great ideas and without the greed and moral famine that is apparent in the older generation. This is typical of emerging economies that tend to start off copying successful products until they are booming. I believe that like the Japanese the Chinese will soon go through a stage of real innovation driven from within and as their inventions are copied by the next emerging economy they will consider plagiarism with the same distain we do in the west.

All the best

David