Spot the difference...

[Blew it]

Holster your scratchy old quill pens for a moment....

....and try to understand it's the activity that needs promoting...not just the vehicles.

When first joining this forum over fours years ago it was predominantly community-led, with just the odd input from traders...usually as the result of a request within a posting. The situation has now changed, and I would appeal to the trade members to start inputting more of a community nature...before this once-great forum takes on the mantle of just another trade paper.

Earlier this year, I helped out as a volunteer at the Raleigh Big Bike Rides in Swindon. With the help of the young showroom manager of the host venue, I hatched a plan to record the route on video and have it running on a wide-screen tv in the showroom. Nothing special, just me riding the six-mile route I had configured for the ride-out. As the test riders started arriving at the venue, much to the owners annoyance, they all stood watching the video on the telly instead of brousing all the shiny machines in the shop. Suitably inspired by the video, the mood was set...sold on the "activity"...they just couldn't wait to get on the bikes and ride the route.

....it was only at the end of that thoroughly enjoyable ride that the customers started to examine the glittering goods on display.

SELL THE ACTIVITY...THE BIKES WILL SELL THEMSELVES!

If you trade members really want to break through the current barriers to a greater uptake of cycling, then you need to start helping out by dispelling the often misconcieved notion that cycling is dangerous to your health....what better way than a simple video presentation like the one I posted on another thread.

Perhaps It would be better if the trade members stopped rattling their sabres at each other and joined the ordinary members who have been promoting the "activity"...for free...ever since this forum started.

 

[flecc]

Well said Blew it.

The expressions of trade rivalry and anti-BEBA sentiment are unwelcome at any time in this forum. Follow the example of the very experienced motor trade and it's practice of respect for all other marques and trade bodies at all times for more than a half century to mutual benefit. Back in the 1920s and '30s they were at each others throats which did none of them any good. Their trade had an appalling reputation at that time, consumers understandably widely regarding them all as crooks.

 

[billadie]

As a consequence of this thread I has a look at Kudos's website. They might want to revisit the FAQ section on batteries before someone notices that some of the information about competitors products is -shall we say- dated.

I am sure that this wasn't meant to make the competitor's products expensive but the law can be capricious...

 

[RoadieRoger]

What about incorporating the PRC on that flag . No not that one , the People`s Republic of Cymru of course .

 

[Kudoscycles]

....and try to understand it's the activity that needs promoting...not just the vehicles.

When first joining this forum over fours years ago it was predominantly community-led, with just the odd input from traders...usually as the result of a request within a posting. The situation has now changed, and I would appeal to the trade members to start inputting more of a community nature...before this once-great forum takes on the mantle of just another trade paper.

Earlier this year, I helped out as a volunteer at the Raleigh Big Bike Rides in Swindon. With the help of the young showroom manager of the host venue, I hatched a plan to record the route on video and have it running on a wide-screen tv in the showroom. Nothing special, just me riding the six-mile route I had configured for the ride-out. As the test riders started arriving at the venue, much to the owners annoyance, they all stood watching the video on the telly instead of brousing all the shiny machines in the shop. Suitably inspired by the video, the mood was set...sold on the "activity"...they just couldn't wait to get on the bikes and ride the route.

....it was only at the end of that thoroughly enjoyable ride that the customers started to examine the glittering goods on display.

SELL THE ACTIVITY...THE BIKES WILL SELL THEMSELVES!

If you trade members really want to break through the current barriers to a greater uptake of cycling, then you need to start helping out by dispelling the often misconcieved notion that cycling is dangerous to your health....what better way than a simple video presentation like the one I posted on another thread.

Perhaps It would be better if the trade members stopped rattling their sabres at each other and joined the ordinary members who have been promoting the "activity"...for free...ever since this forum started.

I absolutely agree,we need as an industry to bring our bicycles and the delight of riding them to the public,that is why we are doing a series of road shows in April,next year. These events are some effort for Kudos to organise and attend,geographically we are not best positioned to haul 20 plus bikes up to the north of England.
But these events are somewhat supporting converts plus friends. Many new ebike converts are not always existing cyclists. We do the Kent show every year,unfortunately no test track,despite awful weather the last few years the interest in our bikes is busy-the normal questions shows that the general public's knowledge of these bikes is very poor,so we have much work to do
Normal questions-
How far will it go?
Does it charge up when pedalling?
How long to charge the battery?
How long do the batteries last? etc
I must have answered the same questions so many times.
Our Redbridge Cycling event is the best way to test these bikes,the circuit is purpose designed to test cycles,if the weather is kind its a great day out-we have offered the day to everybody in the ebike world but only Cycleezee has accepted so far,perhaps they are all frightened to introduce their potential customers to the Kudos range! Now there's a challenge!
Congrats to Kimi,nice to see Lotus back!
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[flecc]

What about incorporating the PRC on that flag . No not that one , the People`s Republic of Cymru of course .

Oh no, can't have that, Wales is not a country but a part of England. That's what Henry VIII ruled in the days when kings made the laws.

 

[flecc]

Congrats to Kimi,nice to see Lotus back!

Yes, it was good to see and hear that "old-fashioned" blast of fresh air from Kimi.

"Leave me alone!", that told 'em! A real racer just getting on with the job without all the interference from outside that so blights modern F1.

 

[Jimod]

Does it charge up when pedalling?
Kudoscycles

You're correct that most people have no idea how e bikes work and what they do. I have been asked by 3 people at work if my bike charges the battery when I'm pedalling. When I say no, the claim that's rubbish then because it's easy to make it do it. I have even tried explaining that the extra energy needing to be supplied by my legs to charge the battery doesn't match the amount of energy put into the battery they claim I (and obviously ALL ebike makers) don't know what I'm talking about.
One guy thought it would be easy to make the bike charge itself when moving so the battery would never go flat. When I pointed out he'd make millions of pounds quite qucikly and then billions in a little longer time if HE could invent such a generator he simply looked at me.

They all then quoted bikes with a hub dynamo which powers the lights as an example of how it works.
12 hour night shifts are never boring

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Congrats to Kimi,nice to see Lotus back!
Dave
Kudoscycles

We agree on something at last!

All the best

David

 

[eddieo]

They all then quoted bikes with a hub dynamo which powers the lights as an example of how it works.
12 hour night shifts are never boring

more to be pitied then scorned.....at least with pub philosophers you can part company and drink elsewhere..a bit more difficult on a 12 hour night shift. Simply humor them and go for a blub in toilet

 

[Jimod]

more to be pitied then scorned.....at least with pub philosophers you can part company and drink elsewhere..a bit more difficult on a 12 hour night shift. Simply humor them and go for a blub in toilet

Humour them? No chance. Eddie we're Scottish, we simply curse and swear at each other then shout and stuff. Then after a while we simply argue about something else, something equally as daft and pointless.

You've got to do something on the nightshift to keep you sane.

 

[Kudoscycles]

As a consequence of this thread I has a look at Kudos's website. They might want to revisit the FAQ section on batteries before someone notices that some of the information about competitors products is -shall we say- dated.

I am sure that this wasn't meant to make the competitor's products expensive but the law can be capricious...

Hi Billadie,pulled the following from my website,the statement is 18 month old but I cannot see much has changed.

A big factor when considering the long term ownership costs of an electric bicycle. The most popular battery recently fitted to e-bikes has been lithium manganese, this has an average recharge limit of 500 cycles (say, 2 years) and can cost minimum £400 plus for a replacement battery. All Kudos cycles, unless stated otherwise, are fitted with the latest lithium phosphate battery (LiFePO4) which are cheaper to replace (current average price £200.00 incl 20% VAT) and have a recharge limit of over 1500 cycles (say, 5 years). They also have a very low self discharge rate, even when left unused.

It seems ok to me....can cost £400....the Bosch and Bionx batteries are considerably more expensive than that.....our batteries still are priced from £159.80 to £253.00,those prices remain unchanged,so average price of £200.00 is correct.
I will say that some of my direct competitors have lowered their prices recently,is that due to Kudos? The ebike industry in the past looked towards replacement batteries as ongoing profit but the emergence of LifeP04 has forced us all to look to longer batteries with a longer cycle life.
My Secret bike and my new Performance Series will,regretably,use LiMn04,the replacement battery cost will still be about £200(Samsung cell,10,4 Ah),these batteries have been selected because lightweight was deemed a priority,it will be carefully explained to customers that a shorter cycle life will be expected.
Have I missed something?
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Scimitar]

One guy thought it would be easy to make the bike charge itself when moving so the battery would never go flat. When I pointed out he'd make millions of pounds quite qucikly and then billions in a little longer time if HE could invent such a generator he simply looked at me.

They all then quoted bikes with a hub dynamo which powers the lights as an example of how it works.
12 hour night shifts are never boring

You see, this is what happens when 'celebrity' and Eck's Faktur are more important in people's lives than actually learning something at skool. Eny fuel no you can lead a horse to culture but you can't make it think.

 

[flecc]

Have I missed something?
Dave
Kudoscycles

Instead of Li-ion Manganese, many e-bikes now use compound cathode polymer batteries with lives of 800 to 1100 charges, and that's certainly true of the most prominent makes. Therefore that badly needs updating to take this into account. E-bikes at the bottom of the market (the cheap end) do still use simple cathode Li-ion Manganese which are claimed to give 500 charges but often give diminished performance from about 300 charge onwards, with failures at between 400 and 500 charges.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The most popular battery recently fitted to e-bikes has been lithium manganese, this has an average recharge limit of 500 cycles (say, 2 years) and can cost minimum £400 plus for a replacement battery.

Come on Dave, that's totally wrong. Minimum cost is about £160. £400 is more like the maximum. "can cost up to £400" would be a better way of saying it.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Instead of Li-ion Manganese, many e-bikes now use compound cathode polymer batteries with lives of 800 to 1100 charges, and that's certainly true of the most prominent makes. Therefore that badly needs updating to take this into account. E-bikes at the bottom of the market (the cheap end) do still use simple cathode Li-ion Manganese which are claimed to give 500 charges but often give diminished performance from about 300 charge onwards, with failures at between 400 and 500 charges.

Flecc,you are always on the ball with these things,how much is the cost of a 10Ah compound cathode polymer battery these days?
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Kudoscycles]

Come on Dave, that's totally wrong. Minimum cost is about £160. £400 is more like the maximum. "can cost up to £400" would be a better way of saying it.

My words are correct note 'can cost' but I accept the wording is ambiguous,like flights 'from',so I will seek some new words tomorrow at work. Out of interest which UK dealer sells a LiMn04 battery for £160.00?
Thanks
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[flecc]

Flecc,you are always on the ball with these things,how much is the cost of a 10Ah compound cathode polymer battery these days?
Dave
Kudoscycles

£350 for a 37 volt 10 Ah battery in either the in-frame or flat pack form is current and typical from a leading make. One of the most expensive from a German brand is £403. A daft exception is BionX at £1050!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

My words are correct note 'can cost' but I accept the wording is ambiguous,like flights 'from',so I will seek some new words tomorrow at work. Out of interest which UK dealer sells a LiMn04 battery for £160.00?
Thanks
Dave
Kudoscycles

It's the word "minimum" which is wrong.

 

[Kudoscycles]

It's the word "minimum" which is wrong.

Can cost minimum £400,in for example the Bionx range of batteries 'can cost minimum......' But its semantics and I accept as ambiguous,will make more succinct tomorrow. I will also update the battery type in line with fleccs suggestion. The battery technology is moving quickly but sometimes not necessarily forward,time not to be a pioneer!
thanks
Dave