Specify best conversion outcome for same cost as Argos recent bargains

matthewslack

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Nov 26, 2021
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I missed out on both the £245/£285 folders and the £360 non-folder, but I was given a nice Voodoo Bizango and I have an old 26er full suspension MTB available.

What is the best setup that budget could buy, including a battery, for shopping/commuting up to 20 miles return, in fairly hilly terrain, mostly tarmac but a bit of steep rutted forest road too?

And what if I used an existing battery and still spent all the money?

The Bizango would have to be a hub motor because of chainstay shape.
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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I missed out on both the £245/£285 folders and the £360 non-folder, but I was given a nice Voodoo Bizango and I have an old 26er full suspension MTB available.
Is this a reason to finally unbox your TSDZ2? Ok possibly (OSF etc. etc.) if not raining, because of the rising damp issue, and all the many other anxieties poor TSDZ2 owners live with every day, including screw anxiety. Not suggesting the BBS01B, which isn't plagued by rising damp or shaft anxiety, because I know you like torque sensored and it's too expensive.
 
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saneagle

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Oct 10, 2010
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I missed out on both the £245/£285 folders and the £360 non-folder, but I was given a nice Voodoo Bizango and I have an old 26er full suspension MTB available.

What is the best setup that budget could buy, including a battery, for shopping/commuting up to 20 miles return, in fairly hilly terrain, mostly tarmac but a bit of steep rutted forest road too?

And what if I used an existing battery and still spent all the money?

The Bizango would have to be a hub motor because of chainstay shape.
Bizango is not the best donor because of the small chainwheel. When you have a motor helping you, your gearing is going to be too low.

Personally, I'd forget it, and get a bike with a normal sized chainwheel, then you can fit whatever kit you want and enjoy relaxed pedalling at whatever speed you go. My bike has 11T/48T gearing for top gear with 26" wheels, which I think is about right for a touring/commuting bike. If you have 29" wheels, that would be about 42T chainwheel size.

Depending on your weight, a 15A KT controller running at 48v should give the power and torque you need, and a 260 rpm 48v or 201 rpm 36v motor (run at 48v). AKM are the best motors IMHO because of the high internal reduction ratio and clutch between the hub and the motor disengages the internal gears, unlike Bafang, Shengyi, Mxus, etc. AKM 100 for a rider up to around 85kg and AKM 128 if above that weight. It's difficult to find 250w versions of the AKM128, but they normally have an easy-peal label. When the label falls off, it's the same as many other 250w motors, and the same as the 250w version, externally.

I prefer the freewheel versions of those motors because they're a bit wider and can handle more power, but then you're limited to 7 speeds, which is another reason to get a crappy 7-speed disc brake triangle frame catalogue bike as a donor, then make the improvements to it that you want, like decent forks, hollowtech crank, hydraulic brakes, handlebars, etc. If you're going to have a bike for ten years or more, you probably want to change all those things anyway, so you might as well start with something that just gives you the frame and a few other bits.

Good cheap 48v batteries can be got from Greenlance or Yose.

PSWPower do some good 48v kits with KT controllers when they have them in stock. That's probably the easiest and cheapest solution.

I wouldn't use a crank-motor on a touring/commuting bike. they generally don't have the reliability, and the ride is much less comfortable.

It's a shame you missed the £360 bike. That would have been perfect, and it's easy to upgrade if there were something about it that you wanted to improve.
 
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Bobbo1260

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Oct 18, 2023
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On the subject of gearing I have 14 teeth on the cassette, 48 teeth on the crank with 26” wheels on my trike with e-bike kit and pedalling in top gear is ok at 15 mph, you don’t want to be doing more than 15mph on a delta trike.
with the same cogs on my 22” wheeled e step thru I’m ghost pedalling at 12mph so am wondering if 58 tooth crank would work better to compensate for the smaller wheels if anyone has done this.
 

Peter.Bridge

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Apr 19, 2023
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Challenge Accepted !

Rear MXUS XF08 (freewheel) rear hub kit 26" wheel including KT controller and display


36V 12.5 Amp Dolphin Battery + 2 amp charger


including delivery from Germany £260.52
Screenshot 2024-08-30 08.37.46.png

+ 7 speed freewheel donor bike with disc brakes £80


Total cost £340 - possible small customs charge but not heard of anyone that has actually been charged
 
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Waspy

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Sep 8, 2012
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Challenge Accepted !

Rear MXUS XF08 (freewheel) rear hub kit 26" wheel including KT controller and display


36V 12.5 Amp Dolphin Battery + 2 amp charger


including delivery from Germany £260.52
View attachment 59579

+ 7 speed freewheel donor bike with disc brakes £80


Total cost £340 - possible small customs charge but not heard of anyone that has actually been charged
er...that Trek could be a mistake in the seller's description. I have the exact same bike and it has a 8 speed cassette. Not that that really matters. Just buy a 7 speed freewheel, or order a cassette conversion kit instead.

These older 26" mountain bikes make great conversions for leisure/towpath bikes.

 

Peter.Bridge

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Apr 19, 2023
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er...that Trek could be a mistake in the seller's description. I have the exact same bike and it has a 8 speed cassette. Not that that really matters. Just buy a 7 speed freewheel, or order a cassette conversion kit instead.

These older 26" mountain bikes make great conversions for leisure/towpath bikes.

Yeah - if its an 8 speed cassette and shifter, then you could just put a 8 speed freewheel on the new freewheel hub motor wheel ?

 
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Waspy

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There you go, I never even knew they made 8 speed freewheels.

I should buy that Trek for £80 OR BEST OFFER. Strip it down for spares.

It's in Leeds though, I live in the soft south.

Then there's the wife's reaction *sigh*
 
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saneagle

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Oct 10, 2010
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There you go, I never even knew they made 8 speed freewheels.

I should buy that Trek for £80 OR BEST OFFER. Strip it down for spares.

It's in Leeds though, I live in the soft south.

Then there's the wife's reaction *sigh*
If you fit an 8 speed freewheel, you have to put a substantial dish in the wheel to get the rim central, or stretch the frame and add a spacer to the left side and use either disc spacers or caliper spacers.

I always use 7 speed freewheels on freewheel motors now. If you want, you can buy 7-speed shifter and derailleur for next to nothing from Ebay or wherever.
 

Waspy

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Sep 8, 2012
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If you fit an 8 speed freewheel, you have to put a substantial dish in the wheel to get the rim central, or stretch the frame and add a spacer to the left side and use either disc spacers or caliper spacers.

I always use 7 speed freewheels on freewheel motors now. If you want, you can buy 7-speed shifter and derailleur for next to nothing from Ebay or wherever.
Good knowledge sir, as usual.

And you're going to want to dump the shifter/brake lever combo things anyway, because you're going to want to fit hydraulic brakes (not negotiable). I like a Shimano Revoshifter, and you only need one because electric bikes don't need three chainwheels.
 
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saneagle

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And you're going to want to dump the shifter/brake lever combo things anyway, because you're going to want to fit hydraulic brakes (not negotiable). I like a Shimano Revoshifter, and you only need one because electric bikes don't need three chainwheels.
Very good point.
 
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Peter.Bridge

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Apr 19, 2023
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just to point out, I am not acquiring yet another e-bike ! - I was just responding to Matthew's challenge and seeing if I could source a kit / battery / donor bike for the price of the Argos bargain £360 one
 

Waspy

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Sep 8, 2012
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just to point out, I am not acquiring yet another e-bike ! - I was just responding to Matthew's challenge and seeing if I could source a kit / battery / donor bike for the price of the Argos bargain £360 one
And you met the brief very well.
 
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matthewslack

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Nov 26, 2021
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just to point out, I am not acquiring yet another e-bike ! - I was just responding to Matthew's challenge and seeing if I could source a kit / battery / donor bike for the price of the Argos bargain £360 one
Impressed it can be done. Keeps the possible in the minds of readers.

I'm slightly disappointed that my lovely orange Voodoo is not suitable for either type of conversion, although I suppose I could put 2x gears on...

Meanwhile my Ridgeback just keeps on keeping on, soon to be 29,000km.
 
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Bobbo1260

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Oct 18, 2023
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My brother in law bought an opollo 26” mountain bike for £160 from Halfords as he wanted a bike he could convert to an E-bike. Bearing in mind he just wanted to cycle from a-b for some exercise, this bike did him as he wasn’t going to do any actual mountain biking.
he bought the same e-bike kit I have in my trike which was a Yosepower 250w 36v 15.5 ah battery for £360. Fitting took a couple of hours and it gets him about ok.
for serious e-bikes this might seem a bit tame but for someone getting on a bit will probable be adequate at about £550 all in..
 

thelarkbox

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Aug 23, 2023
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Fwiw I am very content with the performance of the 250w rear wheel kit from yose-power i fitted a year ago.
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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I'm slightly disappointed that my lovely orange Voodoo is not suitable for either type of conversion, although I suppose I could put 2x gears on...
Aren't there cardboard cutouts of various mid-drives on the forum somewhere, to try for size? If not, you could unbox your TSDZ2 and try it on? Or you could extend the rear chainstays and blow the budget by installing a hub motored front Penny Farthing wheel at the back? That'd be Voodoo and then some, optionally more orangey than usual. Plenty of room for vertical square solar panels either side.


 
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Peter.Bridge

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Apr 19, 2023
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I'm slightly disappointed that my lovely orange Voodoo is not suitable for either type of conversion, although I suppose I could put 2x gears on...
I think it could be done, just the flared chainstay will limit the size of the chainwheel, so you will need to pedal very fast. I copied @saneagle 's top gear of 48t /11t with 26" wheels that gives a very relaxed gearing suitable for an ebike
 

Cadence

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Feb 23, 2023
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This doesn't quite match the bargain £360 Argos non-folder, but has turned out to be good value:-

WP_20230925_13_31_23_Pro_LI.jpg

A hardly used ebay bargain at £35.00, It was intended for my wife to use. I fitted a Yosepower 350w rear cassette kit with 13Ah battery earlier this year which cost £345.00 at the time. I already had the mudguards "in stock", but if I factor those in then it just tops £400.00. The rack was another ebay purchase at £12.00 inc. postage. The Yosepower kit is more than adequate - not in the league of KT conversions favoured by our more experienced members, but it was easy to install and can be made quite neat with a bit of thought. I would imagine it is better than the Argos bike - particularly the display.
Unfortunately she is still suffering the effects of long covid, so my wife still hasn't ridden it, but if I swap the stem for a longer one and put the saddle up I can ride it. Using a rack bag, the "step through" frame is quite useful if I want a quick trip to the shops for a few things, or on a day when I don't feel like getting my leg over!:rolleyes:
It's certainly pointed me in the direction of what I would want for conversion in future for myself - a step-through aluminium frame with rigid forks, disc brakes and 650B wheels. Such bikes are thin on the ground at present and certainly not at a bargain price. It's only a matter of time and keeping a look-out though. There are loads of hardly-used so called "women's" bikes out there at low prices. Nevertheless, I was nearly tempted to buy that Argos non-folder, but with four bikes and counting it's perhaps just as well that it is now sold out!
 
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