Somerset Beware

indalo

Banned
Sep 13, 2009
1,380
1
Herts & Spain
1: Illegal ebike user crashes into a pedestrian @ 25mph on a cycle path. Court conclusion would be "riding an uninsured, unliscensed and unregistered vehicle in a restricted area" which would attract the appropriate punishment, even if the user was deemed to not be responsible for the accident. Ebike legislation wouldn't be called into question as quite clearly the rider is NOT riding an ebike therefore the legislation does not aplpy. The only point for which the ebike legislation would be consulted would be to determine if the machine was an ebike or not.

2: Legal ebike user crashes into a pedestrain @ 15mph on a cycle path. Court finds user not at fault but requests a judicial review of ebike legislation to consider if 15mph is the appropriate limit for ebikes and if ebikes should be allowed on cycle paths.
First of all Amigafan, I think it's presumptuous of you to believe you know how a court might view such a case as you describe. Regardless of that, Mike Killay made a very pertinent point with regard to the media and politicians which you seem to simply ignore.

Your assertion that,
Accidents on "illegal" ebikes are unlikely to affect "legal" ebike users because the "illegal" ebike user is acting outside of the legislation.
is wholly ill-thought as the campaigning tabloids, in my opinion, would care not a jot about any distinction between one electric bike and another and would seek to have all such dangerous machines banned or more stringently regulated.

If your point in all this is to convince readers that illegal ebikes are actually ok and we needn't pay too much heed to the law, then you are quite wrong. That view will harm the case for ebikes to remain relatively unfettered by legislation and what I find stupid in all this is that no-one is preventing anyone from going fast on two wheels. There are various mopeds, scooters and motorcycles for all those who wish to go faster under power than the law provides.

For those who need to go faster under power, please buy the appropriate machine, comply with the necessary legislation and wear the correct safety equipment. Leave ebikes and their legislation for those of us who enjoy them just as it is.

Indalo
 

RoadieRoger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2010
726
200
Reminds me of the panic with Superbikes several years ago .An MP after reading a newspaper report thought that all these machine exceeded 200 mph and asked a question in the House .` Luckily` it was pointed out that they didnt . Panic over some only did 180 mph !
 

Scottyf

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 2, 2011
1,403
-1
Ha


Seriously though I very much doubt it will affect any legal ebike riders.
Such a small percentage of cyclists and most of you are far to old and your all dangerous on the roads anyway.

I'm grouping all you oldies in the same bucket.

Old people are dangerous no matter what form of transport.

You can barely read the newspaper. I can't believe they let you behind these high powered crotch rockets of 250w+
I've seen you all on those mobility scooters tweaking them all to go 20mph!


Ps. All the above it a joke and not intent on offending anyone.

I love ebikes. But I love cycling more.
 

amigafan2003

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 12, 2011
1,389
139
First of all Amigafan, I think it's presumptuous of you to believe you know how a court might view such a case as you describe.
it's not presumptuous, it's experience.

Regardless of that, Mike Killay made a very pertinent point with regard to the media and politicians which you seem to simply ignore.
I didn't ignore it - I simply concluded that Mike is overstating the impact that reactionary politicians and media have on the judicial process and the process of building legislation. I suggest you research just how hard it is to construct and introduce legislation in this country - once having done so you'll realise that almost zero legislation is introduced as a result of poorly researched reactionary issues.

Your assertion that, is wholly ill-thought as the campaigning tabloids, in my opinion, would care not a jot about any distinction between one electric bike and another and would seek to have all such dangerous machines banned or more stringently regulated.
Again, you're assuming that the small amount of input the tabloids have into our judicial system has any measureable effect. The media may call for a ban on all ebikes - it's unlikely to have any effect though.

If your point in all this is to convince readers that illegal ebikes are actually ok and we needn't pay too much heed to the law, then you are quite wrong.
I'm not at all trying to justify that "illegal" ebikes are ok - show me ONE post I've made where I've said using an illegal bike if all hunky dory? I fully understand not only the risks but also the consequences of using an "illegal ebike, just the same way that I understand the risks and consequences when i go canoeing, climing or snowboarding. If somethine goes wrong then I understand it's entirely my responsibility and I must deal with the consequences.

I was simply correcting a statement that said "use of illegal ebikes will lead to further restrictions on legal ebike use". This is the statement that is incorrect, not mine.

That view will harm the case for ebikes to remain relatively unfettered by legislation
We don't have unfettered legislation at all - in fact it's quite extensive. The legislation is however poorly thought out, poorly implemented, poorly enforced and often contradictory.

There are various mopeds, scooters and motorcycles for all those who wish to go faster under power than the law provides.
Then let those who care about "omg it's the law thus I MUST follow it" go and buy them ;-)

For those who need to go faster under power, please buy the appropriate machine, comply with the necessary legislation and wear the correct safety equipment.
If it's all the same to you, no thanks :)

Leave ebikes and their legislation for those of us who enjoy them just as it is.
But I'm not riding an ebike by your definition, am I ;-) You can have your slow ass, restricted, boring machines all to yourself - I've little interest in them.

Oh, and before someone says "well leave the pedelec forums then" - show me a terms fo Reference where it states only strictly legal ebikes may be discussed? Such a stance seems to be only in the mind of a select few here that think discussion must be restricted in such a way ;-)
 
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indalo

Banned
Sep 13, 2009
1,380
1
Herts & Spain
it's not presumptuous, it's experience.
Amigafan, that's not experience; it's arrogance of the highest order.

I shan't dissect the rest of your post as you did mine as I'm sure people are very bored by now. I believe you just like to argue for the sake of it. Others may read it differently from me but your haphazard ramblings follow no logic and serve no purpose I can see.

I suppose, given your last paragraph, I should ask you and save others the bother,
You can have your slow ass, restricted, boring machines all to yourself - I've little interest in them.

Oh, and before someone says "well leave the pedelec forums then" - show me a terms fo Reference where it states only strictly legal ebikes may be discussed? Such a stance seems to be only in the mind of a select few here that think discussion must be restricted in such a way ;-)
why do you participate in this forum when, clearly, you already know everything about ebikes and more about the law than the Attorney General?

You choose to break the rules on the one hand yet you would seek to hide behind the rules should you be asked to leave the forum. Don't you think that smacks just a smidgeon of double standards?

Of course, perhaps I've got you all wrong? Maybe you could set out exactly what it is you seek to achieve here.....a change in the law, more powerful ebikes, an easy opportunity to ridicule those in society who do actually obey and respect the law. I just don't get your point.

Indalo
 

Scottyf

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 2, 2011
1,403
-1
I think the point was to say that 1 nutter on an ebike tearing round that causes an accident won't affect the law biding population and spoil it for the rest of us.

That is all.
 

amigafan2003

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 12, 2011
1,389
139
Amigafan, that's not experience; it's arrogance of the highest order.
Tell me why it's arrogance?

If I told you I'm an excellent snowboarder would you say I'm being arrogant? Or could it just possibly be that I'm simply aware of my own abilities and knowledge?

I shan't dissect the rest of your post as you did mine as I'm sure people are very bored by now.
Oh come now, I'm sure they aren't bored at all :eek:. Besides, giving up so easily?

I believe you just like to argue for the sake of it.
Well it is jolly good fun :D

Others may read it differently from me
It apears many do looking at all the likes my posts have attracted and the inbox messages I have :)

but your haphazard ramblings follow no logic and serve no purpose I can see.
I'm very sorry you haven't been able to follow them. maybe you need to go and read up on "critical thinking". Stab in the dark - you wouldn't happen to be a God fearing chap would you? ;)

I suppose, given your last paragraph, I should ask you and save others the bother,

why do you participate in this forum when, clearly, you already know everything about ebikes and more about the law than the Attorney General?
I've found this forum of immense value and gleaned much useful and interesting information from it, and I hope other have found the same in my postings - in fact my build log seems to have been recd very well.

Consider this - just because I don't get the same things out of the forum that you do or that I don't contribute to the forums in the same way that you do doesn't mean that we can't both use the forums in a productive manner.

You choose to break the rules on the one hand yet you would seek to hide behind the rules should you be asked to leave the forum. Don't you think that smacks just a smidgeon of double standards?
That's got to be the worse straw man argument I've ever encountered.

Of course, perhaps I've got you all wrong? Maybe you could set out exactly what it is you seek to achieve here.....a change in the law, more powerful ebikes, an easy opportunity to ridicule those in society who do actually obey and respect the law. I just don't get your point.
yes, I'd like to see more powerful ebikes and the speed limit raised. I believe civil disobedience is an important tool that all responsible citizens should utilise to effect a change in poorly though out and badly implemented legislation. I believe openly discussing the issues on forums like these is also an important aspect, rather than brushing the issue under the carpet for "fear of upsetting someone". As far as ridiculing those who choose to obey the law - I was being facetious before and I accept the comment was ill judged.. I have no problem with those who deem the current ebike legislation to be acceptable - as far as I'm concerned they are free to carry on as they deem fit, it was never my intention to ridicule them.

I think the point was to say that 1 nutter on an ebike tearing round that causes an accident won't affect the law biding population and spoil it for the rest of us.

That is all.
Bingo :)
 
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