Solar trailer rides again!

[Nealh]

Mostly is it ignorance of th HWC or as I suspect none even know the rule, both relate to driving with out due care or infact dangerous driving where solid whites are marked as they are there for a very good reason.
I was following a cyclist at 18/20mph down a hill with a few bends where vision isn't posible beyond said next bend yet still see cars behind looking to pass on doubles whites.

 

[guerney]

A friend told me about a visit to France, and mentioned that even on dual carriageways, drivers were being really careful around cyclists. Apparently the presumption of blame approach is now in force there, and seems to make a difference.

When did that change happen in France?

 

[nigelbb]

My experiences on this journey have made this issue a whole new interest for me. I work in a safety critical role, safety per se is already in the front of my mind, so seeing the issues in a different situation is very interesting.

Twenty days, 1,455 miles, and the return home starting tomorrow is a huge data resource now, and a very concentrated window on road behaviour in different situations. Almost all that distance is on camera at 2fps, mostly forward facing from the handlebar mount, some rear facing and some forward facing from the front offside trailer corner.

My second camera arrived this morning, so the return trip will be filmed both forward and rear facing. When I get home, I will be looking for a means of creating split screen clips of my footage to show both ways at once. Might need a new PC!

The driver behaviour on the worst roads has patterns to it, so with the right interventions at the right level, which I don't feel are necessarily individual prosecutions, I believe there are ways to make the improvements needed.

A friend told me about a visit to France, and mentioned that even on dual carriageways, drivers were being really careful around cyclists. Apparently the presumption of blame approach is now in force there, and seems to make a difference.

I moved to France in 1997 & something that I was immediately aware of was that drivers were far more considerate of cyclists giving them a wide margin when overtaking & exhibiting no impatience when stuck behind them. I put it down to the Tour de France.
In contrast to @flecc's claim regarding continental cyclists all being on step through bikes in street clothes without helmets in France cycling is almost exclusively Tour de France wannabes in lycra & helmets often in a peloton of 8-10 riders all in matching lycra.

 

[sjpt]

When did that change happen in France?

I'm not sure. I have been aware of it for several years now. It is quite possible I thought it was law but in fact it was just in discussion over much of that time, or that there has been a relatively recent change that extended that law.

 

[flecc]

In contrast to @flecc's claim regarding continental cyclists all being on step through bikes in street clothes without helmets in France cycling is almost exclusively Tour de France wannabes in lycra & helmets often in a peloton of 8-10 riders all in matching lycra.

Correction, I've never claimed different for France and know of their differences from some of their neighbours. Italy likewise.

I've always spoken of the main cycling nations of The Netherlands, Denmark and Germany where cycling is on a very much larger scale involving a high proportion of the population.

One of the most unpleasant aspects of this forum is the unnecessary nit-picking if I dont post at huge length every time, including every detail of the minutiae. All part of the intolerance of British cyclists I suppose, the intolerance that leads them to go on the attack against each other on such issues as helmet wearing.

The intolerance that calls using an assist motor cheating.

The intolerance that leads them to video and shop vehicle drivers, the very drivers they say they want to encourage onto bikes.

Intolerance that's generally not seen in The Netherlands, Denmark and Germany, another difference from France where their cyclists are notoriously militant.
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[flecc]

Driver eye height is typically just more than a metre, and the surface of the trailer is only half a metre off the ground. They see an increasingly large area of the panel array the closer they get.

More height can make a big difference. The trip to the recycling centre, which includes a section of major road, carrying the load shown below was amusing. Unable to see me, drivers were passing slowly with huge clearance and rubber-necking to see what on earth it was they were passing!

 

[WheezyRider]

Correction, I've never claimed different for France and know of their differences from some of their neighbours. Italy likewise.

I've always spoken of the main cycling nations of The Netherlands, Denmark and Germany where cycling is on a very much larger scale involving a high proportion of the population.

One of the most unpleasant aspects of this forum is the unnecessary nit-picking if I dont post at huge length every time, including every detail of the minutiae. All part of the intolerance of British cyclists I suppose, the intolerance that leads them to go on the attack against each other on such issues as helmet wearing.

The intolerance that calls using an assist motor cheating.

The intolerance that leads them to video and shop vehicle drivers, the very drivers they say they want to encourage onto bikes.

Intolerance that's generally not seen in The Netherlands, Denmark and Germany, another difference from France where their cyclists are notoriously militant.
.

Intolerance is just part of being British We dislike everyone, especially ourselves.

It's not intolerance though that leads to cyclists to using video cameras. Do you also disagree with dash cams for cars?

The problem is there is negligible enforcement of the rules, traffic police numbers have been cut beyond the bone, so naturally, people just do what they want as they are unlikely to get caught. So they speed, they don't follow the rules for safe driving and they are on their phones. We have a culture in this country of animosity towards cyclists - often roused up by the media for easy click bait. I think a lot of this was originally caused by various bodies that wanted people to buy cars not bikes. So cyclists are an easy target for aggression, which will be experienced by most cyclists every single day they cycle on the roads.

When you are out on your own, you do not have a witness. You could be knocked off and seriously injured or killed. Who is going to stand up for you and put your case? How will this bad behaviour be stopped if drivers believe they can act with impunity? It will only stop if they believe there is a chance they will be caught and their bad behaviour brought to light. It is not a case of "shopping" people, it is about a paradigm shift in the way we utilise our roads.

If you got knocked off your bike today by a motorist not following the rules, how would you prove your case? Without video evidence it's your word against the driver, who will naturally be blaming you.

If driver behaviour improved, I would gladly get rid of my video cameras.

 

[WheezyRider]

More height can make a big difference. The trip to the recycling centre, which includes a section of major road, carrying the load shown below was amusing. Unable to see me, drivers were passing slowly with huge clearance and rubber-necking to see what on earth it was they were passing!

Step ladders still giving excellent service

 

[flecc]

Intolerance is just part of being British We dislike everyone, especially ourselves.

Agreed.

Do you also disagree with dash cams for cars?

Emphatically yes, haven't got one and never will have one.

The problem is there is negligible enforcement of the rules, traffic police numbers have been cut beyond the bone, so naturally, people just do what they want as they are unlikely to get caught. So they speed, they don't follow the rules for safe driving and they are on their phones.

Agreed.

We have a culture in this country of animosity towards cyclists - often roused up by the media for easy click bait. I think a lot of this was originally caused by various bodies that wanted people to buy cars not bikes.

No it's not caused or aroused. It's simply that bicycles are in the way. Just like milk floats used to be.

When you are out on your own, you do not have a witness. You could be knocked off and seriously injured or killed. Who is going to stand up for you and put your case? How will this bad behaviour be stopped if drivers believe they can act with impunity? It will only stop if they believe there is a chance they will be caught and their bad behaviour brought to light.

It's a job solely for the police, vigilantism is always wrong. Every effort should be made to compel our representatives to rebuild our police forces to what they once were. A respected body effectively controlling and regulating public behaviour.
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[Nealh]

Action camera's are a cyclist's witness or evidence of a wrong being done to them, it is endemic all over the country where often police ask for camera footage when an incicdent occurs.
The lack of road policing means in the most part it is down to drivers condcuting themselves in a lawful manner and we know there are a lot of bad eggs out their on the roads.
As has been have mentioned before the UK doesn't have the national or civil police numbers that is seen in other countires, at times one could even ask do we have a police force, sometimes one will see someone fall foul of the law and be pulled over but the cases are more to luck then enforcement and beingin/at the wrong placeat the wrong time.

 

[WheezyRider]

Agreed.



Emphatically yes, haven't got one and never will have one.



Agreed.



No it's not caused or aroused. It's simply that bicycles are in the way. Just like milk floats used to be.



It's a job solely for the police, vigilantism is always wrong. Every effort should be made to compel our representatives to rebuild our police forces to what they once were. A respected body effectively controlling and regulating public behaviour.
.

It's not vigilantism, it's about just trying to look after myself on the road. Having a picture of a camera clearly visible on my bike has a remarkable effect on motorist behaviour, even when I am not recording. Remove the picture and close passes return.

It's sad, I don't like it, but it's a fact of life these days.

 

[flecc]

It's not vigilantism

It's sad, I don't like it, but it's a fact of life these days.

Doing the job of the police is vigilantism by definition.

Of course the government and police love you doing their job for them, even encouraging it since it's getting them off the hook. Thats why this situation will never change all the time you and others do it.

It's a con on the public that's gathered pace ever since David Cameron announced "The Big Society" of volunteering.

Translated that meant: "We tax you for the money to do the jobs, but now you have to do the jobs anyway".
.

 

[WheezyRider]

Doing the job of the police is vigilantism by definition.

Of course the government and police love you doing their job for them, even encouraging it since it's getting them off the hook. Thats why this situation will never change all the time you and others do it.

It's a con on the public that's gathered pace ever since David Cameron announced "The Big Society" of volunteering.

Translated that meant: "We tax you for the money to do the jobs, but now you have to do the jobs anyway".
.

So if someone broke into your house and attacked your wife and children, you would stand aside and do nothing about it? It's a police matter after all!

Great to have such principles if you are killed or seriously injured yet the motorist gets off scot free as there is no evidence. Sometimes you have to be pragmatic about things rather than have great words said for you at your wake.

 

[flecc]

So if someone broke into your house and attacked your wife and children, you would stand aside and do nothing about it? It's a police matter after all!

I'd be astonished, since I have no house, no wife and no children!

Seriously, it's exactly a police matter, so I'd inform them.

I've no objection to you or anyone informing on genuine serious offences against you, but what is going on with this camera campaign is far too often vindictive, unnecessary and unjustified. Conducted by a minority with an anti-driver and motor vehicle bias.

We are apparently the most camera surveiled society in the world, yet of your own submission, the least at peace with ourselves.

Hardly surprising is it.
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[nigelbb]

Correction, I've never claimed different for France and know of their differences from some of their neighbours. Italy likewise.

I've always spoken of the main cycling nations of The Netherlands, Denmark and Germany where cycling is on a very much larger scale involving a high proportion of the population.

One of the most unpleasant aspects of this forum is the unnecessary nit-picking if I dont post at huge length every time, including every detail of the minutiae. All part of the intolerance of British cyclists I suppose, the intolerance that leads them to go on the attack against each other on such issues as helmet wearing.

The intolerance that calls using an assist motor cheating.

The intolerance that leads them to video and shop vehicle drivers, the very drivers they say they want to encourage onto bikes.

Intolerance that's generally not seen in The Netherlands, Denmark and Germany, another difference from France where their cyclists are notoriously militant.
.

Your acknowledge that for most of Europe cycling is commonly the lycra crowd just as it is in the UK. Isn't it more likely that the reason cycling is so popular in the Netherlands & Denmark less to do with slower economic recovery post war & more to do with the fact that these are the flattest countries in Europe? I recall working in Boston in Lincolnshire & being initially surprised at the numbers of elderly cyclists until I realised how flat it was.

 

[jimriley]

It's not vigilantism, it's about just trying to look after myself on the road. Having a picture of a camera clearly visible on my bike has a remarkable effect on motorist behaviour, even when I am not recording. Remove the picture and close passes return.

It's sad, I don't like it, but it's a fact of life these days.

Vigilantism would be more akin to finding where the offending driver lives and going round with a mob, pitchforks and gallows. That'll learn em. (Apologies to those who are averse, for quoting a Badger)

 

[WheezyRider]

Your acknowledge that for most of Europe cycling is commonly the lycra crowd just as it is in the UK. Isn't it more likely that the reason cycling is so popular in the Netherlands & Denmark less to do with slower economic recovery post war & more to do with the fact that these are the flattest countries in Europe? I recall working in Boston in Lincolnshire & being initially surprised at the numbers of elderly cyclists until I realised how flat it was.

While a lot of the NL is flat, they have very strong winds, so in many cases it is as bad as going uphill. It also rains quite often. But it does not put them off. We used to have a large number of people cycling in the UK, despite the weather and the hills, but I believe cycling was deliberately killed off here in the 60s and 70s.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Vigilantism would be more akin to finding where the offending driver lives and going round with a mob, pitchforks and gallows.

Agreed.

I would assume that 'Vigilantism' is enforcing the law without authority.

All a cyclist with a camera is doing is providing evidence to the Police so that the Police can enforce the law.

 

[WheezyRider]

I'd be astonished, since I have no house, no wife and no children!

Seriously, it's exactly a police matter, so I'd inform them.

I've no objection to you or anyone informing on genuine serious offences against you, but what is going on with this camera campaign is far too often vindictive, unnecessary and unjustified. Conducted by a minority with an anti-driver and motor vehicle bias.

We are apparently the most camera surveiled society in the world, yet of your own submission, the least at peace with ourselves.

Hardly surprising is it.
.

I agree, there is way too much surveillance on people in this country, but I think it is a consequence of people's unhappiness rather than the other way around.

I would never have a web based camera system, or a fixed camera at home. I don't bother reporting incidents unless they are serious. But for my own protection/vindication it's something I feel I have to have in the current environment.

 

[flecc]

Isn't it more likely that the reason cycling is so popular in the Netherlands & Denmark less to do with slower economic recovery post war & more to do with the fact that these are the flattest countries in Europe? I recall working in Boston in Lincolnshire & being initially surprised at the numbers of elderly cyclists until I realised how flat it was.

No it isn't more likely, and I notice you conveniently leave out Germany.

Countries with large flat areas suffer fearsome unobstructed winds. The infamous ones on the polders of The Netherlands are probably why the Dutch, little over a quarter of our population, buy over six times as many e-bikes as us.

If the cycling were as easy as you suspect, and given their leisurely speed of cycling, they wouldn't need e-bikes at all.
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