Should it be legal....?

[Scottyf]

I take no offence to what Indalo has said if I am included within that band of Cretins.
I do fully understand the law and understand the consquences should I be punished.

I do understand the point of view and your right it should be black and white but its never quite so.
I find it hard to take offence to anyone on the internet in a forum.

I'm sure in person we would all be much more willing to hear others views. I find face to face conversation much better than a view posted on a forum.

I'm definetly not saying I'm above the law and that my actions can and will suffer a consquence if the law does decide to get one over on me. However my point of view is that although I think the 15mph limit is a bit low and the selling of these types of transport should not be dicated to us.

I'd still like to the rules change a little. At least the higher power motor for those who really need it.
But I understand Indalo's comments and amazingly do agree with them.

They are there for a reason and I agree with them. But when trying them out for myself I just needed that little extra pace to keep myself enjoying it as well as the excercise. I was never going to build a rocket. Nor ride like a moron. But I needed something that suited me.

But again I understand I am on the naughty side and accept the responsibility of my actions.

What I do disagree with, is the name calling and foul play and just not accepting anyone else's opinion.
I still like everyone on this forum and there is obviously some keen minds amoung us that like to share experiences and help.

I know this topic has been done to Death and I will no doubtadly carry on with how I ride currently. I even uploaded some of my commute and you can judge that on my riding efforts a while back.
I also prefere the BPM as its quieter and more robust than the smaller motors.

I don't think Indalo should be banned either. Ok maybe over stepped the boundry a little but ganging up on him is no better either.

I like everyones view on this and its quite strange there appears to be two views that appear to be quite evenly. Which seems indicate that there is strong opposition to the rules currently. I'm not ssaying its right.
Its still wrong in the eyes of the law.

I would like to see something like a higher speed ebike defintion being declared and I'd happily pay the additional for it. Maybe as there not so popular there's not much point putting all the rules into it. I also agree with if something does go wrong you would undoubtably cause much unwanted attention to the ebike community.

 

[hihihi]

Thank you Indalo for your thread. I am really enjoying reading every comment.

What fun, thanks again!

 

[shemozzle999]

Not ganging up on him Scottyf, just a polite reminder of the site rules.

 

[lectureral]

It is quite funny reading this thread here in Phnom Penh - where the roads are complete anarchy - 4 or 5 on a moped, cars travelling on the wrong side of the road and the wrong way on one-way streets. Nevertheless, very safe - everyone knows to look out for themselves and not to blindly rely on rules. I think I prefer that - puts me in the "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools" camp, I guess. Seriously guys, I don't think there is ever going to be a great crackdown on e-bikes caused by the odd non-legal one.

Oh, and on:

Do you never break the law? Have you ever crossed the road outside zebra crossing?

It is not unlawful to cross a road where you want, when you want - in the "Land of the Free" jaywalking is a criminal offence but not in the UK - shows that the citizen v. subjects issue is not always straightforward.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi I also agree Scottyf

I don't think Indalo should be banned either.

It is still a Free country

Free speech is so important


Frank

 

[Wisper Bikes]

If you didn't have a motorcycle licence you could also be charged with riding a motorised bicycle not in accordance with your licence. That would apply to those of you riding an Alien Aurora or a wisper with the off road thingy.

Hi Jimod, just a quick point, all new Wispers are 100% legal and carry EN15194 certification to prove the point. We have not supplied bikes with an "off road thingy" for quite some time now.

All the best

David

 

[flecc]

It is quite funny reading this thread here in Phnom Penh - where the roads are complete anarchy - 4 or 5 on a moped.

Not just Phnom Penh, here out walking in South Croydon a couple of weeks back, an approaching moped had no fewer than four hefty teenagers somehow perched on board, hugging onto each other so closely it was almost indecent. Only one helmeted of course.

Chatted with them when they stopped further down the road since I knew one of them, and it turned out the owner had taken the other three on a demonstration ride. Globalisation effect?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I see this all the time in Kunshan too, entire families of 5 or 6 on one moped, occasionally the moped rider will also have a foot out pushing a pedal cycle too. Amazingly often the only helmet will be on the driver (father) leaving the wife and kids unprotected!

 

[flecc]

I see this all the time in Kunshan too, entire families of 5 or 6 on one moped, occasionally the moped rider will also have a foot out pushing a pedal cycle too. Amazingly often the only helmet will be on the driver (father) leaving the wife and kids unprotected!

And cycling fathers too David:

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Superb Tony! I am sure I saw this bike in Germany recently. A Dutch manufacturer?

 

[eddieo]

Just spotted one of Banbury Frank's illegal ebikes on eBay which got me thinking: Given the law, as I understand it, relating to ebikes in the UK, particularly with regard to motor power, surely peddling, (as opposed to pedalling!) such obviously illegal machines ought to be in breach of the law?

I'm asking that as a question because, as things stand, I suspect it isn't illegal to actually promote such products. Now, I well understand that the power level is switchable so the machine may be ridden in "legal" mode but I can't get my head round the fact that the motor is clearly outside any legal parameters contained in the regulations.

It occurs to me that people requiring the sort of power produced by electrical systems such as the one advertised, really ought to be looking at a different form of transport. When I read the blurb on Frank's ad, the bits in green type seemed to be there to entice the speed freaks yet those parts were also the bits which displayed, to me, a complete distain for the regulations.

I have no difficulty at all if legislation should provide, in the future, for more powerful ebikes in this country. If a separate class is created, perhaps requiring legislation similar to that applicable to motor cycles, fine. My gripe is that, as things stand, people are creating illegal ebikes, some bragging about it in this forum.....and it seems, breaking the law with impunity. That can't be right.

Indalo

I see nothing wrong with the opening to this thread, It only started to deteriorate when the crypto-fascist "Do what thou wilt" brigade crawled out of the wood work.

We are all different, but this is a public forum which endeavours to promote safe and legal E biking. Lets for Gods sake try and keep it civilised, talk about the builds by all means but accentuate the positive and try not annoy the rest of us with childish nonsense.

 

[eddieo]

Superb Tony! I am sure I saw this bike in Germany recently. A Dutch manufacturer?

Hmmm......No brain buckets though

 

[tillson]

I don't think that Indalo should be banned either and that is because no one has been offended. There is too much, "he's hurt my feelings, I'm leaving because I don't want to get hurt anymore" going off. This is the playground equivelant of a child not getting it's own way and going home, taking the football with them. All too often, and not just on this forum, when awkward questions are asked or uncomfortable facts pointed out, the default fall-back response is usually, "you're being nasty and upsetting me."

Bans should be reserved for posts which are obscene or racist or anything else of a similar nature.

Sometimes people need to be told things in a very direct and straightforward manner and that can hurt, but it isn't wrong and it doesn't warrant a ban.

 

[amigafan2003]

It only started to deteriorate when the crypto-fascist "Do what thou wilt" brigade crawled out of the wood work.

Do you have any idea what the word facist means? Likening a "do what thou wilt" attitude with facism is absurd in the extreme.

this is a public forum which endeavours to promote safe and legal E biking.

Is it? Care to point out a terms of reference?

Sometimes people need to be told things in a very direct and straightforward manner and that can hurt, but it isn't wrong and it doesn't warrant a ban.

Being direct does not mean you have to call someone a moron or an cretin (or a facist - see above). Quite frankly, if you have to result to such base language and insults rather than try to debate the point in question, then you've already lost the argument in my eyes.

 

[NRG]

Hi Jimod, just a quick point, all new Wispers are 100% legal and carry EN15194 certification to prove the point. We have not supplied bikes with an "off road thingy" for quite some time now.

All the best

David

Hi David, are all your controllers therefore limited to no more than about 12amps or less? Just curious as to how you meet the EN spec...

 

[tillson]

Quite frankly, if you have to result to such base language and insults rather than try to debate the point in question, then you've already lost the argument in my eyes.

I agree, but my point is that it doesn't warrant a ban. In truth, no one is properly offended. They might pretend to be offended in order to oil the wheels of their argument, or to puff out their chest and assume some sort of perceived moral superiority, but offence, true offence, is probably the last thing on their list.

But then again, I am both a cretin and a moron, so what do I know?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I don't think that Indalo should be banned either and that is because no one has been offended. There is too much, "he's hurt my feelings, I'm leaving because I don't want to get hurt anymore" going off. This is the playground equivelant of a child not getting it's own way and going home, taking the football with them. All too often, and not just on this forum, when awkward questions are asked or uncomfortable facts pointed out, the default fall-back response is usually, "you're being nasty and upsetting me."

Bans should be reserved for posts which are obscene or racist or anything else of a similar nature.

Sometimes people need to be told things in a very direct and straightforward manner and that can hurt, but it isn't wrong and it doesn't warrant a ban.

I'm no politician, so I struggle to put into words what I think in these matters. I don't know how you can say that noone has been offended. I am certainly offended by those comments. What's more, with what you and the others are saying/implying that this forum is only for legal bikes is making me (and I guess others) feel quite uncomfortable and not very welcom. I think the forum administrators should explain their standpoint on this. Perhaps we need a new forum for ebikes with bikes or who aspire to bikes that don't 100% comply with the regulations as they stand.

 

[flecc]

Superb Tony! I am sure I saw this bike in Germany recently. A Dutch manufacturer?

Yes it is David, not sure which though.

 

[Scottyf]

Keyboard warriors every where!
Me included!

;-)

The above is lighthearted and not meant to offend =-D

 

[flecc]

I'm no politician, so I struggle to put into words what I think in these matters. I don't know how you can say that noone has been offended. I am certainly offended by those comments. What's more, with what you and the others are saying/implying that this forum is only for legal bikes is making me (and I guess others) feel quite uncomfortable and not very welcom. I think the forum administrators should explain their standpoint on this. Perhaps we need a new forum for ebikes with bikes or who aspire to bikes that don't 100% comply with the regulations as they stand.

In my experience the administrators of this forum are very tolerant, an attitude I wholly support. I don't want to see any person or particularly any subject banned or even censored. It's in the nature of e-biking that members in here are mostly in the upper range of ages. If we can't have civilised and sensible free debate, there's little hope for this society.