Separated at Birth and by £500. What's the link anyone?

countryman663

Pedelecer
Apr 11, 2013
78
0
NWest Lake District
Just as I found a thread that interests me with a guy contemplating the pros and cons of purchasing in or from Germany, I'm stymied because I read that there was a guy who did just that but he's been banned!
I was sure someone must have done it and was pleased to see Hugh's reply too. perhaps we can persuade him to give us the full story?

PS: where in Spain are you? I was in Barcelona last week and there is a big BH Emotion shop there that i had a look around if its of any interest to you
M
 

Artstu

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2009
2,420
925
I'm sure the service you get is as good as from a UK retailer, and I dare say better. Remember the front brake lever is usually on the left on none UK bikes.
 

countryman663

Pedelecer
Apr 11, 2013
78
0
NWest Lake District
Hi Mel,

Dont fret, if you do a search on the forum, top right hand white box, you will be able to find lots of info, and opinions, on buying from germany and elsewhere, including eddios......

Lynda :)
Can you suggest any particular searches that would point to these..eg the wayward Eddios (oooh do tell;)
thanks for helpful comments so far
 

melspea

Pedelecer
Mar 19, 2013
29
1
Now that was an interesting read in more ways than one! Thanks for that Artstu.

It was interesting to read the thoughts of a guy who already owned a hub-drive bike although I have never heard of the model. He didn't seem overly impressed by the KTM crank-drive in comparison, indeed he was almost grudging in his praise of it, although he professes to be a fan of the Bosch system.

Also interesting was the fact that I noticed some other guy on that thread who had "banned" next to his name. What a strange place this is!

I'd like to read more opinions like that though providing comparison between hub and crank drive. There's a magazine online that I have looked at but they don't seem to do any group test or make any direct comparisons between different bikes which would be useful. Road-testing a bike in isolation without any reference points isn't really very helpful, especially to those like myself who would need to travel a long way to test-ride ebikes.

What I don't understand is the bit about the eddie guy praising the hub-drive bike yet I don't think I have ever heard anyone else mention it. I haven't read about it either so is it something that is no longer produced? Was it in fact any good?

Mel
 

countryman663

Pedelecer
Apr 11, 2013
78
0
NWest Lake District
Replied to your other post. We have a Macina Cross with 400wh battery in stock for £1799 rather than £1899 (51cm, roadster frame). Alternatively we could do the bike with the smaller battery if you prefered. We offer free collection of your bike in the unlikely event of a problem and offer a free courtesy bike if required at no extra cost. Good luck with the search!
Thank you for the offer.I am finding this particular bike confusing as it seems to take so many forms judging by the image search. Does it come dressed up like a Macina Bold but with suspension forks at all? something like the Macina cross street/ focus jarifa cross street. I recently tried a Geida Berig and found the lack of front damping a bit tough on our rural roads and tracks
M
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Now that was an interesting read in more ways than one! Thanks for that Artstu.

It was interesting to read the thoughts of a guy who already owned a hub-drive bike although I have never heard of the model. He didn't seem overly impressed by the KTM crank-drive in comparison, indeed he was almost grudging in his praise of it, although he professes to be a fan of the Bosch system.

Also interesting was the fact that I noticed some other guy on that thread who had "banned" next to his name. What a strange place this is!

I'd like to read more opinions like that though providing comparison between hub and crank drive. There's a magazine online that I have looked at but they don't seem to do any group test or make any direct comparisons between different bikes which would be useful. Road-testing a bike in isolation without any reference points isn't really very helpful, especially to those like myself who would need to travel a long way to test-ride ebikes.

What I don't understand is the bit about the eddie guy praising the hub-drive bike yet I don't think I have ever heard anyone else mention it. I haven't read about it either so is it something that is no longer produced? Was it in fact any good?

Mel
To answer some of your questions:

Eddieo had am evaluation Wisper DaaHub kit that never went on sale in the UK, so nobody else could give an opinion about it.

There's so many different bikes now, that to talk about the difference between hub-drives and crank-drives is meaningless. You can only compare different bikes. Some hub-motored bikes have masses of torque and can blitz most available crank-drive bikes on torque for hill-climbing and acceleration, but you can make a couple of general rules: Crank drive bikes can usually get you up steep hills; generally, you have to pedal harder on crank-drives; hub-motors are better in strong winds; the cheaper hub-motored bikes are not so good for steep hills. The difference between them is now much closer than it used to be.

Eddieo was banned for breaching the forum rules on several occasions. He had warnings, was banned, reinstated, had further warnings and then banned again.
 

melspea

Pedelecer
Mar 19, 2013
29
1
You need the Macina Dual if you want an out of the box bike with everything fitted.
Thanks for that once again Artstu. I like that bike though perhaps it's just the picture but ground clearance seems a little short?

I have seen other Bosch motors inverted but maybe that's just for those bikes that people use for mountain tracks and over rocks and stuff?

Mel
 

melspea

Pedelecer
Mar 19, 2013
29
1
I recently tried a Geida Berig and found the lack of front damping a bit tough on our rural roads and tracks
M
Countryman, you mention a bike I like the look of but I would prefer Gepida's other one with suspension fork as the roads are less than smooth around my home. I can't remember the name of it but it's a full-sized bike on big wheels.

I have noticed a lot of bikes with Bosch drives all look pretty much the same, especially the trekking type of frame.

Mel
 

Artstu

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2009
2,420
925
Thanks for that once again Artstu. I like that bike though perhaps it's just the picture but ground clearance seems a little short?

I have seen other Bosch motors inverted but maybe that's just for those bikes that people use for mountain tracks and over rocks and stuff?

Mel
I think it's the photo. I was dropping my bike down a very large kerb and was aware the motor may catch, but in reality it was a long way off. You'd be better with the inverted ones for MTB'ing for sure. My motor casing is 1 1/4" lower than the chain ring.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,205
30,605
What I don't understand is the bit about the eddie guy praising the hub-drive bike yet I don't think I have ever heard anyone else mention it. I haven't read about it either so is it something that is no longer produced? Was it in fact any good?

Mel
Eddie's Wisper Daahub kit was a prototype, the only one on the road in the UK at the time. It comfortably powered to about 18 mph and over, avoiding the cutoff of power at 15 mph that the Bosch crank drive unit has, which many dislike. So it wasn't really a like for like comparison, expressing just Eddie's preference for that particular bike and hub kit.

In practice hub motors will satisfy the majority who rarely have to tackle a hill of over 10% gradient, but once gradients get steeper than about 14%, many hub motors can start to struggle, depending on how strong the rider is for helping.

Crank drives having the mechanical advantage of the motor driving through the bike's gears can cope with just about any hill so are often the answer in the most difficult territory.

There's no absolute point at which crank is better than hub though, not only due to rider difference but also due to system power differences. Since hub motors don't have gear selection advantage, they tend to be specified with somewhat higher maximum powers to compensate. Conversely, crank drives tend to be specified with slightly lower powers to preserve the bike's transmission against undue wear. But as ever, there are exceptions to this generalisation.

N.B. Crossed with d8veh's post above.
.
 
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melspea

Pedelecer
Mar 19, 2013
29
1
Some hub-motored bikes have masses of torque and can blitz most available crank-drive bikes on torque for hill-climbing and acceleration, but you can make a couple of general rules: Crank drive bikes can usually get you up steep hills; generally, you have to pedal harder on crank-drives; hub-motors are better in strong winds; the cheaper hub-motored bikes are not so good for steep hills. The difference between them is now much closer than it used to be.
Thanks for that D8veh although I'm no wiser! Perhaps, given the similarity between the differing types, I should look for lightness.

Mel
 

countryman663

Pedelecer
Apr 11, 2013
78
0
NWest Lake District
Countryman, you mention a bike I like the look of but I would prefer Gepida's other one with suspension fork as the roads are less than smooth around my home. I can't remember the name of it but it's a full-sized bike on big wheels.

I have noticed a lot of bikes with Bosch drives all look pretty much the same, especially the trekking type of frame.

Mel
Ok Mel, well there's the.....
Albion 1000 not quite the looker the others are in my opinion
Alboin_1000.jpg

the Albion CRS which looks like a Berig in White, again no suspension front forks
Alboin_1000_CRS.jpg
and there's the Albion 1000 Speed 45 which appears to be everything I want
Alboin_1000_45.jpg

..except legal without additional paperwork/ insurance etc. and approaching euro 2800
Been doing my homework y;see
hope that's a help.
I tried the Berig thanks to the help of Reaction Electric who transported one to a regional agent for a test. (a big thank you to them) now if I could get hold of the speed 45 in 25K mode for around £1800 I would be very happy (BIG HINTS HERE):cool:

...
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
I've ridden loads of electric bikes, and I can say that there's not one that I'd have been unhappy with if it was the only one I could have.. It's only when you have specific requirements that it becomes easier to choose - like if you only have one leg, you need a throttle; if you're heavy, unfit and have hills to climb, then you want one with a strong motor; if you have to go a long way, then you need one with a a big battery; etc.

I've never noticed the difference in weight of electric bikes when riding them, but you do notice the difference in motor power. The other thing that is very important, but nobody ever seems to mention it, though fairly simple to change on some bikes, is the gearing. It's a real nuisance when you can't pedal faster than 16mph because the gearing's too low. You never figure that out on a test drive, but you do soon after you bought it. Full suspension bikes give more comfort, but carrying stuff is not so easy. I see people stuck on whether to get a bike with a torque sensor or a pedal speed sensor, but that's just plain nuts.

Most people are happy with the bike they bought unless it breaks down, and they chose that one because the bloke in the shop said it was good. If you're the type that spends a lot of time choosing/evaluating, then you'll probably always be wondering whether you should have got a different one - like when you're in a restaurant with a big party, and you look at what other people got, which often looks better than what you got. Another general rule: If the bike has regen, make sure that you get to try it down a big hill to check that it rolls avove 18mph. You get so little from regen, that to me, it has more disadvantages than advantages. Despite what the Neo's blurb and salesmen say, it doesn't have regen.

To summarise: All the different systems and components have advantages and disadvantages. When you add them up, they tend to equalise. All e-bikes are adequate, so, unless you have specific needs, buy one that you like the look of.
 

countryman663

Pedelecer
Apr 11, 2013
78
0
NWest Lake District
I've ridden loads of electric bikes, and I can say that there's not one that I'd have been unhappy with if it was the only one I could have.. /QUOTE]

but i'm having such fun at the moment! I have a pretty clear ideas about what i want and I strongly believe that I will go with the Winora but it's nice to get an insight into features, terminology and technology along the way. I don't want fulls suspension just front to spare my aching wrists and elbows

(ps what did you choose from the menu) " when you're in a restaurant with a big party, and you look at what other people got, which often looks better than what you got"
 

countryman663

Pedelecer
Apr 11, 2013
78
0
NWest Lake District
You need the Macina Dual if you want an out of the box bike with everything fitted.

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/14073-ktm-macina-dual-hs-eagle-has-landed.html


That's getting there Artstu, Thanks. and coming in at around 2300 euros/1950 ish pounds from Germany. Available in the UK at what price anyone and..what's the sram dual drive like. i have seen its a combi. hub derail gear set but haven't heard much about it in use...this could be a good thing though
 

countryman663

Pedelecer
Apr 11, 2013
78
0
NWest Lake District
That's getting there Artstu, Thanks. and coming in at around 2300 euros/1950 ish pounds from Germany. Available in the UK at what price anyone and..what's the sram dual drive like. i have seen its a combi. hub derail gear set but haven't heard much about it in use...this could be a good thing though
Re ArtSTu and Macina dual...AAAARGH not in the 2013 Line up :mad: