Selling and Buying Second-hand e-bikes

[Nealh]

Lipo is more volatile then lion and less stable , one reason why it was usurped by lion.
Lipo falls off the cliff faster as well, past 3.6v it races down to 3v or less very quickly unlike lion which is slower and more stable.

Maybe the story is wrong and some bad media fact finding has gone on, I wouldn't be surprised if by saying cheaper and safer the facts are very much incorrect and the chemistry involved is actually Lifepo4 or the newer monika of LFP.
I for one wouldn't want Lipo in my car.

 

[Charliefox]

Lipo is more volatile then lion and less stable , one reason why it was usurped by lion.
Lipo falls off the cliff faster as well, past 3.6v it races down to 3v or less very quickly unlike lion which is slower and more stable.

Maybe the story is wrong and some bad media fact finding has gone on, I wouldn't be surprised if by saying cheaper and safer the facts are very much incorrect and the chemistry involved is actually Lifepo4 or the newer monika of LFP.
I for one wouldn't want Lipo in my car.

Lifepo4?? It is LiPO4, says so on my original receipt. And it is more stable than Li-ion. Can be charged right up to maximum too, without much impact on longevity. Agree it does fall off fast. The note that came with the batteries (in 2015) said that the LED charge lights would not go down smoothly but would suddenly go from a high level to zero. At least I can go a same speed at the end as at the start. Granted I no longer get around 30 miles per charge (on/off road). Now more like 22. Enough for town and back still.

 

[matthewslack]

Lifepo4?? It is LiPO4, says so on my original receipt. And it is more stable than Li-ion. Can be charged right up to maximum too, without much impact on longevity. Agree it does fall off fast. The note that came with the batteries (in 2015) said that the LED charge lights would not go down smoothly but would suddenly go from a high level to zero. At least I can go a same speed at the end as at the start. Granted I no longer get around 30 miles per charge (on/off road). Now more like 22. Enough for town and back still.

PO4 (3-) is the chemical phosphate ion. Po in LiPo is polymer. Two different battery chemistries. Your receipt looks confused! More likely than not that the LiPO4 it states means LiFePO4, Lithium Iron (Fe) PhOsphate.

 

[Charliefox]

PO4 (3-) is the chemical phosphate ion. Po in LiPo is polymer. Two different battery chemistries. Your receipt looks confused! More likely than not that the LiPO4 it states means LiFePO4, Lithium Iron (Fe) PhOsphate.

My apologies! I hadn't realised that LiPo and LifePO4 were different. ~And yes, my battery receipt, when fished out did say LifePO4.
The comment about Ford and new batteries was ....Ford’s decision to manufacture LFP batteries in the United States is part of a trend among automakers to adopt this older, cheaper and safer technology. Tesla, for instance, already uses LFP batteries in the EVs it makes and sells in China.

 

[Kev.k]

Looking at prices over the last month on eBay. They’re mental.

No wonder nothing sells.

I can’t imagine why anyone would pay £3500 for a very well used EMTB, when a new one is £4700 (2022 Whyte 160s).

 

[flecc]

The comment about Ford and new batteries was ....Ford’s decision to manufacture LFP batteries in the United States is part of a trend among automakers to adopt this older, cheaper and safer technology. Tesla, for instance, already uses LFP batteries in the EVs it makes and sells in China.

LiFePO4 is not an older technology, it is much newer than Li-ion. The latter came first with cobalt cathodes, later with manganese cathodes and finally with complex compound cathodes. During this time it had always been known that iron was theoretically the best cathode material but how to use it proved difficult.

By the time lithium iron phosphate was achieved the advances in Li-ion cancelled out its advantages and the added weight made it less suitable for many applications, so it languished neglected.

I don't see it returning for e-cars except in certain markets like China at present.
.

 

[cyclebuddy]

LiFePO4 is not an older technology... the added weight made it less suitable for many applications, so it languished neglected.

I don't see it returning for e-cars except in certain markets like China at present.
.

LiFePO4 is certainly making a storming inroad as THE battery chemistry of choice for leisure batteries now.

A little heavier than Li-Ion they may be, but they're significantly lighter than the conventional alternative of Lead Acid, give a much greater usable capacity in a like-for-like package (say 12v@100Ah or 200Ah typically), and cycle 3000-7000 (some claim) times. LiFePO4 is a no-brainer where you need that high-cycle life against Lead or Li-Ion in Camping, Caravanning, Home Power storage and back-up supplies etc.

In portable/solar generator/battery packs, Jackery who led the field in Li-Ion for a good few years have all but lost their market to firstly Bluetti who led the way with LiFePO4, then (in just this last year) EcoFlow and most other main brands are all turning to LiFePO4 chemistry. I carry a LiFePO4 Bluetti in my tour van to recharge my Li-Ion e-bike batteries. As Li-Ion packs, these portable devices worked out to be quite expensive given their short 500/800 cycle life, but 3000+ cycles from LiFePO4 makes it a justifiable (more palatable) cost option.

 

[Nealh]

Lifepo4?? It is LiPO4, says so on my original receipt. And it is more stable than Li-ion. Can be charged right up to maximum too, without much impact on longevity. Agree it does fall off fast. The note that came with the batteries (in 2015) said that the LED charge lights would not go down smoothly but would suddenly go from a high level to zero. At least I can go a same speed at the end as at the start. Granted I no longer get around 30 miles per charge (on/off road). Now more like 22. Enough for town and back still.

Obviously you don't know you battery chemistries and just like the media does you have posted incorrect info before doing your research and providing the full facts.

As I summised in my reply I was correct in saying that lifepo4 is the safer chem to use, it is a very different beast to the unstable Lipo.

 

[Nealh]

With Lifepo4 there is little point in going to the 3.65v charge as there is no value in doing so , 80% of the charge is a held in a very small voltage range between 3.15v - 3.45v. 2.8v - 3.15v holds approx. 14% and 3.45v - 3.65v holds approx. 5% o fthe capacity.
If one charges to 3.65v one will find it likely bleeds down to 3.45v so no point in doing so.