Samsung - are we just paying for the name?

[Nealh]

At less then £2 a cell the BAK 20A N18650CNP has to be a no brainer to try out and may well be on my to do list as soon or before spring I will be wanting a small 7 - 9ah 13s 2 or 3p in a bottle battery, it is a whole £1. 20 cheaper then the excellent molycel p26a. As has been mentioned the caveat will be life cycle but even if only 300 -500 they will still be good value.

 

[Nealh]

Had a Mooch on ES and found someone cycle tested the BAK N18650CK at 3a the results weren't to shabby 2.26% capacity loss after 50 cycles.

 

[billym1967]

I've got a few out with the delivery drivers, the bak 2900mah, so there getting a good test lol. I've started using 21700 a bit more because there's cases now, bit bigger but they work. But getting cells this year have been a nightmare. Last year this time 35e were dropping in price. I bought 5000 of them. No movement this year yet. I was looking at the listen,, but none in stock were I get my cells

 

[Nealh]

DLG is another China brand, ES cycle testing again at 3a showed the 3000ah cell being tested was quite poor and and 100cycles over 11% capacity was lost.

 

[wheeliepete]

Nice one Neah and Billy for keeping up with the latest cells coming on the scene. It does look as if we need to change our attitude of Chinese made cells esp. if they are starting to show decent results in trusted testing. I see Fogstar have the Molicel M35's back in stock, how do they stand up? Glad to hear you are keeping busy Billy, there have been a couple of your customers singing your praises on here recently.

 

[Nealh]

Mooch rates the M35 cell from Moli as an equal to the GA, keep the current draw at 5 - 7a max for longevity/life cycle.

 

[Nealh]

Just had a peek over at ES and the 4800mah Lishen LR2170SD a 10a cell is looking quite good and cheap to buy.
After 500 cycles at the full 10a discharge the cell loses approx. 20% capacity down to 3.3v. At a full 10a the 4800mah cell gives 3000mah which is better then the Sam 48G and the Panny 20700B.
At 10a it sags to 3.95v then the voltage decrease is pretty much linear as with any other cell.

After 100 cycles 6% loss, 200 cycles 7%, 300 cycles 12% & 400 cycles 15%.

BAK N21700CG if kept to 10a is another good performer, the 5000mah cell returning 3150mah at 10a bettering the Sam 50E3.

 

[Manc44]

Please update us on this thread in a month or so. It will be useful advice for others looking. Cheers.

It's now been 3 years and I am still using this Liitokala battery. There were long periods (like 7 months here, 2 months there) where I didn't use the eBike, but it's done around 1,000 miles now and been charged at least 25 times. I've had no issues.

For some reason Liitokala doesn't sell any eBike batteries now. Jimmy has been taken ill (ebikebatteries.co.uk) and the eBay guy mentioned on the first page (eequalspower.co.uk) has stopped trading.

Deary me it's bleak out there for batteries, at least shrink wrapped ones like the one I've got. Right now if that needed replacing I'd have no idea where to start looking. eBay/Amazon but it's a minefield. There's a seller on eBay with one but it's in a Hailong case and they only have 157 feedback. Claims to have LG cells inside.

 

[portals]

My £500 52V 17.5Ah Hailong with class 1 LG cells is now over 3 yrs old and still charges to 58.6 volts (I have taken great care of it and when storing it).

As mentioned above - you get what you pay for...

 

[Az.]

My £500 52V 17.5Ah Hailong with class 1 LG cells is now over 3 yrs old and still charges to 58.6 volts (I have taken great care of it and when storing it).

As mentioned above - you get what you pay for...

58.6V? Shouldn't it be 54.4V?

 

[Ghost1951]

I'm sorry to hear that Billy Milburn (Equalspower)may have stopped trading. He did my Specialised/BBS01 conversion and is a good honest guy who would see his customers right if anything went wrong. Last time I saw him, about 18 months ago he was taking on a new shop. He had been working out of a small industrial estate unit before that. I think he might have seen the writing on the wall as regards regulation of battery production. Regulation always ruins the small people in business.

 

[Az.]

I'm sorry to hear that Billy Milburn (Equalspower)may have stopped trading. He did my Specialised/BBS01 conversion and is a good honest guy who would see his customers right if anything went wrong.

All his e-bikes are illegal

 

[Ghost1951]

All his e-bikes are illegal

Mine wasn't and isn't - well it was until I removed the throttle, which took two minutes.

It is a 250 watt BBS01 with a 36 volt battery and a maximum current draw of 15 amps.

 

[Az.]

Mine wasn't and isn't - well it was until I removed the throttle, which took two minutes.

It is a 250 watt BBS01 with a 36 volt battery and a maximum current draw of 15 amps.

I meant all e-bikes he is selling at his web page at this moment. I am sorry, but if he doesn't know how to make a powerful road legal bike then perhaps he shouldn't be in this business. At this moment he puts his customers at completely unnecessary risk of serious legal complications. It is just unprofessional.

 

[Ghost1951]

At this moment he puts his customers at completely unnecessary risk of serious legal complications. It is just unprofessional.

That assessment of him is mistaken and pretty harsh, in my opinion. He provided what his customers wanted and he carefully explained the legal position, that more powerful bikes than the BBS01 were ONLY legal on private land where the public don't have access.

I had no doubt about what I wanted - a 250 watt continuous wattage motor. I took the throttle off eventually so that mine is completely legal. Other customers of his were mostly delivery riders. He gave them what they wanted and told them that if they rode the bikes on the public roads they would be breaking the rules.

I doubt any of them have been lifted by the police, and if they were, I am sure they were riding like idiots.

I think Billy was one of the most honest and thoroughly decent traders I ever dealt with. He replaced a faulty LCD on my bike immediately when its started showing dark lines, and was very careful in helping a guy I took there that was being disabled by arthritis. He later helped him again at no cost. He spent ages fitting him up with a bike he could ride and gave him a fantastic deal.

If that is unprofessional in your terms then we have a different understanding of the word. You don't know him though, and while I don't profess to be a pal of his in any way, I have dealt with him on four occasions and know him to be straight and trust worthy and not making a lot of money out of his customer base.

Of course now he has stopped building batteries probably because of the approaching regulation fest that will put us all in the hands of the mega corp people like Bosch and Shimano. Gone will be the £250 15 Ahr battery and the £1095 conversion that I had with a second hand, virtually unused, Specialised hydraulic disk brake bike thrown in. Four years later I can still ride that battery 43 miles. Give me Billy over the others any day.

 

[portals]

58.6V? Shouldn't it be 54.4V?

It's a 52V battery so 58.8V when it was new.

I last fully charged in April and it was reading 58.6V, very little deterioration in capacity but then again the ebike has only done a few hundred miles and is used mostly used for pottering about with son or local trips in dry.

 

[saneagle]

It's a 52V battery so 58.8V when it was new.

I last fully charged in April and it was reading 58.6V, very little deterioration in capacity but then again the ebike has only done a few hundred miles and is used mostly used for pottering about with son or local trips in dry.


View attachment 59472

That table is badly out if it's supposed to relate to capacity. Batteries don't go down linearly with voltage. Instead, they accelerate downwards because the watt-hours depend on volts x amps, and the volts decrease all the time the battery is going down. Typically, you've used 60% of the battery when the voltage is halfway down, but if you're making heavy demands on the battery, currentwise, then it would be closer to 65%.

 

[portals]

As a 'rough guide' to tell where your battery is at using a multimeter it gives you a rough indication of what capacity you might have left, I've used it to decide whether or not to charge the battery for shorter trips so it has some use.

 

[Az.]

That assessment of him is mistaken and pretty harsh, in my opinion.
(...)
I think Billy was one of the most honest and thoroughly decent traders I ever dealt with.

It is unfortunate all bikes Billy has for sale are illegal. In my opinion it is unprofessional, because exactly the same effect can be achieved by using legal motors.