Sadiq Khan's cargo and e-bike plan now that ULEZ has expanded to all London boroughs

[guerney]

Sadiq Khan's cargo and e-bike plan now that ULEZ has expanded to all London boroughs
TfL officials say bikes could replace 'between one and two per cent of van kilometres across Greater London by 2025'

"Discounts on cargo and e-cargo bikes have been offered to companies that have scrapped their fossil fuel guzzlers, which officials hope have helped to 'raise awareness amongst those using the scheme of alternatives available' to businesspeople. "

Sadiq Khan's cargo and e-bike plan now that ULEZ has expanded to Outer London

TfL officials say bikes could replace 'between one and two per cent of van kilometres across Greater London by 2025'

www.mylondon.news

 

[Ocsid]

My experience is one driver and one van leaves the courier's depot with a multitude of scheduled deliveries planed, not that one man makes a unique delivery out to me, or possibly one or two others per trip, as is likely the case with using an e-bike. And he and the cargo are in the dry, or buffered from other inclement conditions, for the most part.
I am not seriously seeing a labour-intensive concept as using e cargo bikes replacing much of that, and indeed their own figures of 1 to 2% suggests this is way more a publicity incentive that a serious addressing the ICE emission pollution issue.

 

[flecc]

My experience is one driver and one van leaves the courier's depot with a multitude of scheduled deliveries planed, not that one man makes a unique delivery out to me, or possibly one or two others per trip, as is likely the case with using an e-bike. And he and the cargo are in the dry, or buffered from other inclement conditions, for the most part.
I am not seriously seeing a labour-intensive concept as using e cargo bikes replacing much of that, and indeed their own figures of 1 to 2% suggests this is way more a publicity incentive that a serious addressing the ICE emission pollution issue.

Agreed, all the cargo bike promotions of this nature are ridiculous. In my borough a DPD van heading for my area each morning is typically carrying about 130 deliveries, but the furthest the driver gets from his depot is seven miles. To add to any cargo bike usage problem is the brutal North Downs hill between the depot and my area, the climbs each side nigh on impossible for any cargo bike.

However, there is a serious emissions issue even in outer London boroughs like mine which is killing people, including the very young, so the silly side of ULEZ shouldn't be used to prevent addressing pollution. The quicker we switch to electric transport, the better, and we've made great strides in that in London. Both bus routes serving my estate are clean and silent, fully battery electric now, and many of our courier vans are now electric, including DPD's. Although most of the residents cars are i.c., well over half don't commute with them and ULEZ will reduce that further, so they are only intermittently very lightly used for domestic purposes.
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[Woosh]

We too have a few DPD electric vans in Southend-On-Sea.

 

[Az.]

The quicker we switch to electric transport, the better

Couldn't agree more. I would love to have an electric car, but with no off-road parking I simply can't charge it. Also insurance costs are insane.

 

[saneagle]

I can remember when there was milk delivery in every street in Greater London and other cities by electric milk floats. I don't see any reason why post, Amazon and anybody else doing multiple deliveries or visits in a day wouldn't get benefit from a suitable electric vehicle.

The Heinzmann double motor system can haul 600kg up a 13.1% hill. That's easily enough to cope with any pedelec delivery in the Greater London area.

 

[flecc]

Couldn't agree more. I would love to have an electric car, but with no off-road parking I simply can't charge it. Also insurance costs are insane.

As I posted only yesterday, we can't all switch anyway, just to change the 60% who can charge at home to e-cars will take 12 years, so those like yourself if being sensible face an unavoidable long wait.

But that's fine, since in 12 years time the street charging infrastructure will be far better and insurance companies will have stopped panicking about them once half of cars are e-powered.

The quote from yesterday:

"There are over 28 million households in Britain with at least 60% able to have a home charge point. That's 16.8 millions. There are some 32 million cars in Britain with an average of 23 years life, meaning the replacement rate is 1.4 millions per year. So it will take 12 years just to furnish those who can have home charge points with an e-car. That's 12 years not from now, but from 2030, or 2035 for hybrids. Only then will those without any home charging facility be materially affected, but by then the infrastructure will be radically better of course. It will be the remaining i.c. car owners complaining about the lack of petrol stations! "
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[Az.]

will take 12 years, so those like yourself if being sensible face an unavoidable long wait.

It is sad really... with a little of good will it could take few hours. Allocated parking space, cable under pavement and installation of charging point.
Where I live progress of civilization is painfully slow. I don't think I will see charging infrastructure in my lifetime

 

[flecc]

I can remember when there was milk delivery in every street in Greater London and other cities by electric milk floats. I don't see any reason why post, Amazon and anybody else doing multiple deliveries or visits in a day wouldn't get benefit from a suitable electric vehicle.

No need, the e-vans currently used by our couriers do the job far better than the old milk float type

The Heinzmann double motor system can haul 600kg up a 13.1% hill. That's easily enough to cope with any pedelec delivery in the Greater London area.

Pedelecs are not practical, unable to cart the load for a typical London courier delivery route, they use long wheelbase high-roof vans for good reasons. In these internet buying days the loads bulk and delivery densities in large towns and cities are very high with mileages per route low, ideal for electric vans.

And 86% of the population live in cities and towns, the remaining 14% widely scattered over rural areas impractical for cargo pedelecs.

There are some limited applications for them, certain tradespeople in urban areas for example, but not for most delivery work. The Royal Mail for example had to reluctantly reach the same conclusion and abandon their plan to buy 16,000 cargo pedelecs. Vans are now entirely their solution now they are effectively just another package courier.
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[Nealh]

1 - 2% of deleiveries by ebike is a joke number , certainly not a serious effort to combat so called emissions and ano brainer when inclines are to be encountered . Their main are restricted to flat terrain places to be viable.
My last DPD local was on drop 182 when he delivered my parcel and still had a few to go, these companies work them like slaves whether employed or so called self employed.

 

[flecc]

It is sad really... with a little of good will it could take few hours. Allocated parking space, cable under pavement and installation of charging point.
Where I live progress of civilization is painfully slow. I don't think I will see charging infrastructure in my lifetime

I think you are missing the point I made, that the world cannot make e-cars, or any cars for that matter, fast enough. The fleet replacement cycle in Britain is 23 years. So there's no point in you having a charge point within hours if you can't get the e-car. Even when I bought mine five and half years ago there was a year long waiting list through Europe and it's no better now for many makes.

I just used cunning to get one much quicker, by keeping a close eye on allocations to poor areas where rich enough customers were few and snatching one with a deposit even before it arrived at the dealership. But of course my gain was another's loss and longer wait.
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[saneagle]

1 - 2% of deleiveries by ebike is a joke number , certainly not a serious effort to combat so called emissions and ano brainer when inclines are to be encountered . Their main are restricted to flat terrain places to be viable.
My last DPD local was on drop 182 when he delivered my parcel and still had a few to go, these companies work them like slaves whether employed or so called self employed.

The biggest cost is the driver. Driverless vehicles are used in many factories. In the future, all deliveries will be driverless. It's just a matter of time. When you don't need to pay for drivers, smaller vehicles become viable. The hills don't present any problem, even today. Legal pedelec delivery vehicles already have more than enough power to deal with hills. As I said above, the Heinzmann system can drag 600 kg up a 13.1% hill or 300kg up a hill twice as steep or 200kg up a hill three times as steep of which there are none.

if that were not enough, they'd design a 3 motor 250w system that could pull 900kg up a 13.1% hill!

 

[flecc]

The biggest cost is the driver. Driverless vehicles are used in many factories. In the future, all deliveries will be driverless. It's just a matter of time. When you don't need to pay for drivers, smaller vehicles become viable. The hills don't present any problem, even today. Legal pedelec delivery vehicles already have more than enough power to deal with hills. As I said above, the Heinzmann system can drag 600 kg up a 13.1% hill or 300kg up a hill twice as steep or 200kg up a hill three times as steep of which there are none.

if that were not enough, they'd design a 3 motor 250w system that could pull 900kg up a 13.1% hill!

While there are some degree of truths in all that, it isn't going to happen in the world we have. That brutal hill I mentioned wasn't because of steepness alone or even that. The outward bound side is a tight, narrow twisty uphill heavy with fast traffic and very dangerous for bicycles. The return side is an almost straight uphill 40mph plus racetrack of two narrow lanes, again very unsuited to bicycles without suicidally inclined riders.

There's cycle paths as an alternative but the less said about their inadequacies and dangers the better.

Routes like this which are commonplace in this country are never going to see driverless vehicles of any kind in any near future. In fact all the talk of driverless vehicles has been nothing but hot air, the impossibilities never being addressed.

The 3000 home estate I live on could never be delivered to driverless, since the way it has been built means no vehicle can get anywhere near most of our front doors, so nowhere to leave items.

The world you envisage would have to have as many drivers, but they'd be in the bulldozers and construction vehicles rebuilding all of the world to suit.
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[Woosh]

Elon Musk posted recently a video of him in a full self driving Tesla. It has been pretrained with his AI using tons of video footages and not a single bit of usual programming. It does not need GPS and you can give it verbal direction like go park the car in front of that blue building on the left.
Google tesla fsd 12

 

[flecc]

Elon Musk posted recently a video of him in a full self driving Tesla. It has been pretrained with his AI using tons of video footages and not a single bit of usual programming. It does not need GPS and you can give it verbal direction like go park the car in front of that blue building on the left.
Google tesla fsd 12

I'm not surprised that he has changed direction so completely, after the shame of having to admit to the US Transportation Board that his self drive system was only level 2, driver must be in control at all times and the system only an aid.

But of course it still doesn't change what I've just posted about the fantasy nature of self driving systems. No amount of AI viewed video footage will cope with all situations and telling the car where to park in front of a blue building still needs a driver, either in the car or in charge remotely.

I've seen immense change in my 87 years, but much of it in wrong directions. There will again be immense change in future, but ultimately much of it will be going backwards to progress. Climate change alone is all the clue necessary as to the nature of that change.
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[saneagle]

Elon Musk posted recently a video of him in a full self driving Tesla. It has been pretrained with his AI using tons of video footages and not a single bit of usual programming. It does not need GPS and you can give it verbal direction like go park the car in front of that blue building on the left.
Google tesla fsd 12

It's going to be some time before we have reliable self-driving vehicles using AI, but reliable technoloy for delivering stuff is here right now. As I said, they already have it in many modern factories. They load up trollies with stuff in the stores and off they go to wherever they're needed in the production lines. The only problem preventing their use for Amazon, Post Office, Tescos, etc is that there is no infrastructure. They'd have to implement that first, which is relatively expensive. If they , the government and interested parties got their heads together and made a standard system that could be used by all, I'm sure they could do it, instead of wasting billions on useless schemes like HS2, which will give virtually no benefit to anyone except those profiting from it.

 

[Woosh]

If they , the government and interested parties got their heads together and made a standard system that could be used by all, I'm sure they could do it, instead of wasting billions on useless schemes like HS2, which will give virtually no benefit to anyone except those profiting from it.

Projects like HS2 are loved by politicians of all flavours because the scope for political donations is enormous.

 

[Woosh]

I've seen immense change in my 87 years, but much of it in wrong directions.

it's the essence of how our brains work. Suck it and see.

 

[guerney]

and indeed their own figures of 1 to 2% suggests this is way more a publicity incentive that a serious addressing the ICE emission pollution issue.

Giving discounts to citizens for bike trailers, enabling collection of "Click and collect" online orders, and other short errands people presently wastefully use their wasteful bloated and heavy unhealthy and dangerous metal boxes on wheels for, would reduce pollution and popularise ebikes. I get such surprised looks hauling things using my cheapo Homcom bike trailer, it makes me wonder if most people have never seen one before, or know they can be used to carry loads of useful volume and weight.

ULEZ

Lesbians should not be penalised, they don't like it.

 

[soundwave]