Rohloff/gearbox question/s!

[Earthskyouch20]

Yes, but you have to keep things in perspective. That's like saying that internal combustion engines are no good because they have to be completely rebuilt after every F1 race.

We're talking about electric bicycles, where most people use them for riding to work, shopping, pub, and rides in the country. How many of them get problems with derailleur gears? Even considering that the retailers often don't set them properly, it's very rare to see posts about them on this forum, so I think you're wrong on that matter. We had one recently, which turned out to be his chain that was broken, which was nothing to do with the gears. On other forums, it would be natural to see more posts about derailleur gears than hub gears because the sporting guys don't use anything else, and there's a reason for that, which you should be able to figure out.

That's where this discussion is getting tangled. I'm talking solely about serious (more than gravel tow paths) off road, cross country use only. This thread is in the mountain bike section of the forum you might have noticed? I'm not referring to road, hybrid, commuter or expedition bikes. I wouldn't even begin to bat for a rohloff over a derailleur on a road racing bike and they're out of the question on low budget, entry level bikes of any type.
The first photo shows my team mates bike at mountain mayhem, its fitted with a shimano xt drivetrain, set up by a professional cycle mechanic prior to the event. It wasn't changing gear, the wheel barely moved in fact due to the mud around the front mech/chainrings. Once it was cleaned off it still didnt change gear very well! My rohloff equipped hardtail (3rd from left in 2nd photo) was in the same condition and shifting perfectly and that is my point.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

for me it would depend where I'm touring, if anywhere civilised id take the rohloff, knowing I can replace or have it repaired, if third world id take derailleurs. where a rohloff scores for me is commuting, its so reliable and trouble free, I've done about 25000km on one of mine, and its been like clockwork just a matter of an oil change and flipping the sprocket every 8000km or so.

Careful, you'll be accused of spreading false information!

 

[Rohloffboy]

Yep I agree with the OP, why are they not making Mid Drive Ebikes with embedded gearbox.

I got my Rohloff bike back in 2004 and I am on the cusp of ordering a Bafang 8fun 500w Mid Drive to make it into an ebike.

The upgrade will cost about £900 all up, for motor kit c/w 15ah 36v battery, so I am still dithering, in case Bosch or someone teams up with Pinion or Rohloff to make an of the shelf ebike that is Mid Drive c/w gearbox.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

Yep I agree with the OP, why are they not making Mid Drive Ebikes with embedded gearbox.

I got my Rohloff bike back in 2004 and I am on the cusp of ordering a Bafang 8fun 500w Mid Drive to make it into an ebike.

The upgrade will cost about £900 all up, for motor kit c/w 15ah 36v battery, so I am still dithering, in case Bosch or someone teams up with Pinion or Rohloff to make an of the shelf ebike that is Mid Drive c/w gearbox.

I know what you mean!

http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2015/9/multi-geared-mid-motors-making-their-market-entry-10124716

I've yet to try an e mtb but it seems the trend is to beef up the wheels, tyres and brakes to cope with the extra weight and speed. So you have to consider whether its worth upgrading your bike or buying another.
It can't be long coming, giant and nicolai both offered g- boxx equipped bikes before.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

Yep I agree with the OP, why are they not making Mid Drive Ebikes with embedded gearbox.

I got my Rohloff bike back in 2004 and I am on the cusp of ordering a Bafang 8fun 500w Mid Drive to make it into an ebike.

The upgrade will cost about £900 all up, for motor kit c/w 15ah 36v battery, so I am still dithering, in case Bosch or someone teams up with Pinion or Rohloff to make an of the shelf ebike that is Mid Drive c/w gearbox.

Bafang looks interesting.. What sort of bike is yours? I spotted a new conversion kit earlier where tbe motor sits inside the frame triangle instead of out front like the bafang. I'll see if I can find it again..

 

[Rohloffboy]

Got the Frame and Forks from X'CND aka Tilon in X'ian China, they built my a Rohloff Frame with Rohloff OEM Sliding Drop Outs, and another with a Bushnell EBB, of the two I preferred the Sliding Drop Out design.

The bike is more MTB Hybrid style, running 1.3" Tyre's, so great for on road and tarmac trails, being Hard Tail and Rigid forks, it's not for the rough of road stuff, but suits my needs perfectly.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Ok, First question; anyone used a Rohloff hub on an e-mtb instead of defailleurs? I'm thinking it would be much more suitable.

Thirdly; I've read that front derailleurs don't work that well with the added power of the motor and they're developing emtb specific versions. Why aren't they just going the whole mile and fitting the bikes with gearboxes instead?! The g boxx system been around for years on DH bikes. Weight much less of an issue with a motor!

Regarding derailleurs, years of muddy mountain biking has shown that as soon as it gets dirty a derailleur set up starts to fail. Shifting goes out or stops altogether. Chains snap.

I don't get it. You start off asking questions about which would be more suitable, and by the end of the thread, you're a proclaimed expert. You don't sell Rohlhoffs by any chance, do you? Could you explain please. I'm intrigued.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

Got the Frame and Forks from X'CND aka Tilon in X'ian China, they built my a Rohloff Frame with Rohloff OEM Sliding Drop Outs, and another with a Bushnell EBB, of the two I preferred the Sliding Drop Out design.

The bike is more MTB Hybrid style, running 1.3" Tyre's, so great for on road and tarmac trails, being Hard Tail and Rigid forks, it's not for the rough of road stuff, but suits my needs perfectly.

I had ebb on my hardtail, not a fan, think you went the right way with sliding dropouts.

 

[EddiePJ]

I'd like to try the pinion 9 speed XR on a hub motor bike. A gear box thought out for e-bikes and their need for wider jumps between gears.

Funny that you should say that, this just happens to be my favourite looking ebike. So simplistic looking and clean. A Rohloff bike would look just as lovely.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

I don't get it. You start off asking questions about which would be more suitable, and by the end of the thread, you're a proclaimed expert. You don't sell Rohlhoffs by any chance, do you? Could you explain please. I'm intrigued.

I never asked which were

I don't get it. You start off asking questions about which would be more suitable, and by the end of the thread, you're a proclaimed expert. You don't sell Rohlhoffs by any chance, do you? Could you explain please. I'm intrigued.

I don't proclaim to be an expert but I know what I know and what I've seen and experienced in 20 odd years mountain biking. I stumbled across rohloff by accident when I demo rode a dialled bike ( to evaluate frame!) which had one fitted. I loved it, bought the hub but not that frame! Having used derailleurs I found it superior, based on my own experiences.
I wasn't asking which were more suitable but was it possible to fit one. You have to take pressure off the pedals to change gear with a rohloff and I didnt know if the motor assistance would have too big a delay.
And no I dont sell rohloffs, I work in the building trade!

 

[EddiePJ]

That's where this discussion is getting tangled. I'm talking solely about serious (more than gravel tow paths) off road, cross country use only. This thread is in the mountain bike section of the forum you might have noticed? I'm not referring o road, hybrid, commuter or expedition bikes.

That opens up a whole new debate. The amount of companies that list bikes as wanna be mountain bikes/ eMTB's, but would fail at the first sight of proper off road use. It is one of my pet hates.

Love it. Nice looking Orange as well.

I'd say that you and your mate have raised the goal post by a very long way.

I must try harder! Mudguards long since gone in the bin.

 

[EddiePJ]

I should have added this.

I find that there are two issues with having a rear mech. Wet mud doesn't seem to cause much is an issue, but it certainly becomes an an issue in winter when it freezes when out on a ride. You just have to hope that the rear mech freezes in the best gear to get back home.
The second issue is grass and debris becoming tangled up in the jockey wheels and cassette.. That is often enough to start problems.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

That opens up a whole new debate. The amount of companies that list bikes as wanna be mountain bikes/ eMTB's, but would fail at the first sight of proper off road use. It is one of my pet hate

Love it. Nice looking Orange as well.

I'd say that you and your mate have raised the goal post by a very long way.

I must try harder! Mudguards long since gone in the bin.

Ha ha that was 24hr race and it was horrendous! If that inspires you try the salisbury plain challenge in winter (if they still do it) truly awful, so muddy you had to pedal flat out to move just at walking pace, downhill!
I borrowed that 5 from him for a week, didnt let on but it really nice. Bought a full sus not long after.
How do you find the ktm?

 

[Earthskyouch20]

I should have added this.

I find that there are two issues with having a rear mech. Wet mud doesn't seem to cause much is an issue, but it certainly becomes an an issue in winter when it freezes when out on a ride. You just have to hope that the rear mech freezes in the best gear to get back home.
The second issue is grass and debris becoming tangled up in the jockey wheels and cassette.. That is often enough to start problems.

I've never had one freeze on me and I've ridden in Wales in a blizzard! That's a new one!

 

[EddiePJ]

It happened twice last year. It was bloody cold though! Both rides started very wet and muddy, then without warning and seemingly seconds, both bikes started clunking on gear change, then suddenly couldn't change gear, the mud having gone like concrete.

I recently spent an afternoon riding an Orange Five Factory. It had me grinning from ear to ear within the first few metres of setting off. It was just ridiculously fast and easy to ride, and I really didn't want to give it back.

I have been on a couple organised events where everything has just locked solid with mud, and have had to push the bike down hill just skidding along. One event was two years running, and as much as I love mud and gruelling conditions, I didn't go back for the third year.

I'm one of those people that has to be out riding, whatever the conditions, and all year round, and want a bike that will also cope just the same. Many just don't know what they are missing out on by not using their eMTB's during those long winter months. They can be some of the best rides.

In respect of the KTM, I had a few issues initially with chain suck in muddy conditions, but engaging the clutch on the rear mech, solved that one, and it has never happened since.
I really do love the bike, and it does everything that I want from it. I'd like greater rear chainstay clearance as fitting 2.3 rear tyre is pushing things, meaning that I now run 2.25. Besides that, I couldn't want or ask for more.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

It happened twice last year. It was bloody cold though! Both rides started very wet and muddy, then without warning and seemingly seconds, both bikes started clunking on gear change, then suddenly couldn't change gear, the mud having gone like concrete.

I recently spent an afternoon riding an Orange Five Factory. It had me grinning from ear to ear within the first few metres of setting off. It was just ridiculously fast and easy to ride, and I really didn't want to give it back.

I have been on a couple organised events where everything has just locked solid with mud, and have had to push the bike down hill just skidding along. One event was two years running, and as much as I love mud and gruelling conditions, I didn't go back for the third year.

I'm one of those people that has to be out riding, whatever the conditions, and all year round, and want a bike that will also cope just the same. Many just don't know what they are missing out on by not using their eMTB's during those long winter months. They can be some of the best rides.

In respect of the KTM, I had a few issues initially with chain suck in muddy conditions, but engaging the clutch on the rear mech, solved that one, and it has never happened since.
I really do love the bike, and it does everything that I want from it. I'd like greater rear chainstay clearance as fitting 2.3 rear tyre is pushing things, meaning that I now run 2.25. Besides that, I couldn't want or ask for more.

Surprising from ktm, they know a thing or two about off road!

'clutch on the rear mech'?

How is the electric assistance on steep/slippery/rooty climbs? Does it not put too much power down, losing traction? Or you get in tbe habit of turning it off/down?

 

[soundwave]

it will wheel spin even in the dry on climbs over roots ect m8 behind gets a face full of gravel as well

 

[EddiePJ]

You can see the clutch mechanism in use here. It isn't the same derailleur though.

The Bosch motor climbs incredibly well in all conditions, but my bikes geometry also helps in that respect, as I have maintained the OE longer stem.
I thrive on hill climbing, and it is only twice that I have struggled with traction.

The first time was trying to make a climb up from Beachy Head on the Southdowns. The grass was wet, and there was nothing that I could do to go forward. No bike would have made that climb on that day.

The second time was on my recent Swiss trip, but the climb was 53% plus gradient on loose stone and trying to maintain any forward momentum was nearly impossible, with the front wheel off the ground. The bike just looped in the end, and I had to push it up that particular section.

Wet slippery roots have never been an issue, and most of my rides take in off camber rooty sections. I do run very low tyre pressures though, which obviously helps greatly as well. As a whole, I tend to try to use as lower power setting as I can get away with, but that is really only to preserve the battery, and not because of traction issues. Much of the rides here also consist of sand stone, which is usually wet and slimy, and if anything is going to catch you out and put you on your backside it is going to be that. I now just tend to hit them at speed and hope that the front clears with out letting go. Not very scientific, but it seems to work.

Chalk is another major and unpredictable hazard, fine when dry, but I approach slowly and in a low power setting and higher gear when I think that things could be iffy.

Not very off camber or wet, but this is a typical root section.

The bike takes sections like this with ease. I'd certainly not want to tackle anything like this on a hub drive bike though.

 

[EddiePJ]

If you ever want to come and try the bike, you would be more than welcome to do so.

Out of interest, your first name doesn't happen to begin with S?

 

[Earthskyouch20]

If you ever want to come and try the bike, you would be more than welcome to do so.

Out of interest, your first name doesn't happen to begin with S?

Yes.. Are you psychic?!