Rohloff/gearbox question/s!

[Deleted member 4366]

Nuvinci is another masterpiece of engineering, but again it's very heavy.

There's nothing to stop you making your bike as heavy as you want, but my advice is to get rid of all that overweight junk and make your bike as light as possible.

A light bike will give you a much better cycling experience with or without electric support. You'll get more range, better hill-climbing, better handling and easier pedalling.

It doesn't make sense to build or buy a heavy bike.

 

[KeithMac]

I've had derailleur equipped bikes for over 30 years now, fancied a change!.

One has fixed speed and carbon belt, the other has near infinite adjustable gearing (within range).

 

[Earthskyouch20]

My £8 Ebay chain has done 4000 miles with derailleur gears so far, and seems to have plenty of life left in it. How far would it go if I changed to a Rohlhoff?

That's good value! How many of those miles were through mud though?

 

[top drive]

i have the same MTB that flits back and forth between 3 x 9 XTR and a rohloff.

The difference is 1.8lbs to the total bike weight.

both rear wheels have the same hub and tire on , both are set up tubeless.

the total bike weight is 22lbs with XTR and 23.8 with rohloff ... and its 19.6 when its SS

Rohloff is epic in winter in the hills in gloopy mud and snow BUT at a price. its draggy and makes the rear of the bike damned heavy its no good when im racing.

I also have a alfines 8s (recently sold my own one) in the house and 2 sturmey archer 3 speeds in the house.

The alfines a good price point and its fairly robust but its not nearly a comparison for the rohloff and requires looking after.

and the sturmeys are bullet proof but poorly sealed.

An ebike would hide the weight and drag quite well i reckon ! - i have pigeon holed my rohloff for the cargo e bike eventually if i find my self using it enough.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

i have the same MTB that flits back and forth between 3 x 9 XTR and a rohloff.

The difference is 1.8lbs to the total bike weight.

both rear wheels have the same hub and tire on , both are set up tubeless.

the total bike weight is 22lbs with XTR and 23.8 with rohloff ... and its 19.6 when its SS

Rohloff is epic in winter in the hills in gloopy mud and snow BUT at a price. its draggy and makes the rear of the bike damned heavy its no good when im racing.

I also have a alfines 8s (recently sold my own one) in the house and 2 sturmey archer 3 speeds in the house.

The alfines a good price point and its fairly robust but its not nearly a comparison for the rohloff and requires looking after.

and the sturmeys are bullet proof but poorly sealed.

An ebike would hide the weight and drag quite well i reckon ! - i have pigeon holed my rohloff for the cargo e bike eventually if i find my self using it enough.

That's what I thought, the e bike is heavier anyway and has the extra power to cancel the rohloff out. Now I've used the rohloff extensively I can't stand using derailleurs. Why would you want to change gear using one of four levers in two different places, then wait for it to clatter it's way in when you can change as many gears as you like, instantly with just one control?! On road bikes and low end cheapies they make sense, on an mtb I hate them, even in the dry. I genuinely believe they help put casual cyclists off bikes! I think people are indoctrinated to derailleurs as most people experience them first and exclusively, imagine if people got used to hubs and then were offered derailleurs, they'd be laughed off! The end of my rant is; why aren't all mtbs running gearboxes? If sram and shimano put their weight behind them they'd drop in weight and price very quickly. (I do know why, same as car manufacturers, they want parts to fail and need replacing for the good of their business and derailleurs fit that requirement perfectly!)

 

[anotherkiwi]

I'd like to try the pinion 9 speed XR on a hub motor bike. A gear box thought out for e-bikes and their need for wider jumps between gears.

Another thing I am looking at is the SRAM Dual drive which solves the four levers problem replacing them with one. But I have had such bad experiences with cheap twist shifters that I have a psychological block and I love my click shifter with its smooth fast shifts. You can shift several gears at once with a clickshifter if you have the cadence right. I ride on roads only so a derailleur is an easy choice.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

I'd like to try the pinion 9 speed XR on a hub motor bike. A gear box thought out for e-bikes and their need for wider jumps between gears.

Another thing I am looking at is the SRAM Dual drive which solves the four levers problem replacing them with one. But I have had such bad experiences with cheap twist shifters that I have a psychological block and I love my click shifter with its smooth fast shifts. You can shift several gears at once with a clickshifter if you have the cadence right. I ride on roads only so a derailleur is an easy choice.

What's the pinion 9 thing?
Agree, derailleurs perfect for road bikes.

 

[anotherkiwi]

http://pinion.eu/en/c-line/

These guys used to design gearboxes for BMW I think. Yes it needs a special frame... My interest is mounting one on a recumbent trike, there is a German company that provides them mounted to a boom adapted to several brands of trike.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

http://pinion.eu/en/c-line/

These guys used to design gearboxes for BMW I think. Yes it needs a special frame... My interest is mounting one on a recumbent trike, there is a German company that provides them mounted to a boom adapted to several brands of trike.

That's the ticket! I'd like to think we'll see this integrated into electric motors in the foreseeable. Goes against the industry's ethos of marketing bikes as replaceable due to new 'advances' though.

 

[top drive]

Because efficiency. Thats why.m

None of the gearboxes ive used have been anywhere near as efficient at putting power down .

I cant say ive had the issues you have had with deraileurs.

My rohloff was very expensive i want to love it . Its done about 10000miles but if i was going on tour tomorrow id take deraileur gears in a heart beat.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

Because efficiency. Thats why.m

None of the gearboxes ive used have been anywhere near as efficient at putting power down .

I cant say ive had the issues you have had with deraileurs.

My rohloff was very expensive i want to love it . Its done about 10000miles but if i was going on tour tomorrow id take deraileur gears in a heart beat.

I think, for me, the rohloff scores also because it's fit and forget. With upgraded (shimano xt) cables instead of standard and the transfer box packed with grease it has been literally maintenance and adjustment free. All I have to do is lube the chain. The rohloff tensioner is way more manly than any rear mech too. Derailleurs over the same time period would have required constant cleaning, lubrication, adjustment and replacement. I think because of that I forgive the rohloff an awful lot. I like to compare it to a car. If you offered people a car with a derailleur transmission (forgive the practicalities for the sake of the analogy) instead of a gearbox, who would choose it? It's true the efficiency isn't the same, the pepper grinder sensation in low gears is no fun but where you have a powerful electric motor assisting I think that becomes redundant.

 

[top drive]

thats why i have now fitted it to another bike and keep it for winter mud duties

but for summer its no fun. plus the weights too concentrated for an MTB

as i said at the start on a utility E bike its a great idea . my only issue is - security .

Ebike + cargo bike + rohloff = about 5 grands worth of machine sitting there ready to be stolen by some wee ned bam. even with the best will and locks in the world it wont take them long once they realise its worth money.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

thats why i have now fitted it to another bike and keep it for winter mud duties

but for summer its no fun. plus the weights too concentrated for an MTB

as i said at the start on a utility E bike its a great idea . my only issue is - security .

Ebike + cargo bike + rohloff = about 5 grands worth of machine sitting there ready to be stolen by some wee ned bam. even with the best will and locks in the world it wont take them long once they realise its worth money.

Very good points and a sad reality. Reading up on e bikes it seems tracking/theft alert features are on tbeir way, a nice move in the right direction. An anti theft electic shock feature would be nice too!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Derailleurs over the same time period would have required constant cleaning, lubrication, adjustment and replacement.

That's total rubbish. I've not even looked at mine in 4000 miles and two years. I've squirted some 3-in-one on the chain a few times. That's it.

In 6 years of electric biking and about 12000 miles, I can't think of a single time I made any adjustment or maintenance to a rear derailleur other than initial setting. I think I cleaned it once when somebody persuaded me to try dry lube (White Lightening) on the chain, which ended up as gobs of wax all over the jocky wheels. Maybe it would be different for someone riding in sand or with a powerful crank motor.

Also, you seem to be conveniently forgetting that you're supposed to change the oil in your hub every 12 months or 5000km. whichever comes first.

It's people like you posting false information that causes all the confusion. You need to be honest and factual so that people can use the information to make the correct judgement about what's suitable for them.

 

[Earthskyouch20]

That's total rubbish. I've not even looked at mine in 4000 miles and two years. I've squirted some 3-in-one on the chain a few times. That's it.

In 6 years of electric biking and about 12000 miles, I can't think of a single time I made any adjustment or maintenance to a rear derailleur other than initial setting. I think I cleaned it once when somebody persuaded me to try dry lube (White Lightening) on the chain, which ended up as gobs of wax all over the jocky wheels. Maybe it would be different for someone riding in sand or with a powerful crank motor.

Also, you seem to be conveniently forgetting that you're supposed to change the oil in your hub every 12 months or 5000km. whichever comes first.

It's people like you posting false information that causes all the confusion. You need to be honest and factual so that people can use the information to make the correct judgement about what's suitable for them.

Blimey. No need for that aggressive tone. Yes I did forget the oil change but it is, as you said, roughly an annual event. In fact I've only ever done that once and it still works perfectly! Other than that I have been factual, no maintenance or adjustment whatsoever over a peroid of 3 years solid 80% off road use. I've ridden very little in the intervening 3-4 years but each time I've dragged the bike out from the cobwebs its continued to function ( drivetraon wise) with no attention required. I'm happy you've had such good service from your setup. If you read threads on here, on other forums, speak to other people and see their experiences first hand there are thousands of examples of all the problems I mentioned with derailleurs. Shifting problems, chain suck, mechs and chains breaking due to mud build up, the list goes on. Surely you're not denying these things occur? You only need to attend a single mountain bike event (enduro/marathon/xc race etc) to see all these things happening in front of you. I get it, you're a big derailleur fan, that's fine but how dare you accuse me of supplying false information!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes, but you have to keep things in perspective. That's like saying that internal combustion engines are no good because they have to be completely rebuilt after every F1 race.

We're talking about electric bicycles, where most people use them for riding to work, shopping, pub, and rides in the country. How many of them get problems with derailleur gears? Even considering that the retailers often don't set them properly, it's very rare to see posts about them on this forum, so I think you're wrong on that matter. We had one recently, which turned out to be his chain that was broken, which was nothing to do with the gears. On other forums, it would be natural to see more posts about derailleur gears than hub gears because the sporting guys don't use anything else, and there's a reason for that, which you should be able to figure out.

 

[anotherkiwi]

If I was living and working in a city with lots of stop/start riding I can see the advantage of being able to change down when stopped. And not getting the rear mech tangled up when parked in a stack of other bikes. A folder with a Nexus 8 Inter would probably be my bike/gearbox of choice in that case.

Here there are hills and even mountains with mountain passes to be explored with ramps of up to and even beyond 15%. I think the ideal setup in my conditions is a 7 speed cassette 11-34 and 2 chainrings, maybe 48-38. If Mister Shimano would pull his finger out and make a 7 speed for e-bikes with even gear spacing the world would be such a nicer place! 11-15-19-23-27-31-34, there what can be so hard in making one of those?

 

[flecc]

If Mister Shimano would pull his finger out and make a 7 speed for e-bikes with even gear spacing the world would be such a nicer place! 11-15-19-23-27-31-34, there what can be so hard in making one of those?

Whoops! The last step isn't even, should be 35.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Found I can build an 11-15-17-20-24-29-34 from Shimano parts. With a motor the close spacing in the top of the range (15-17-20) is a little redundant.

 

[derf]

Because efficiency. Thats why.m

None of the gearboxes ive used have been anywhere near as efficient at putting power down .

I cant say ive had the issues you have had with deraileurs.

My rohloff was very expensive i want to love it . Its done about 10000miles but if i was going on tour tomorrow id take deraileur gears in a heart beat.

for me it would depend where I'm touring, if anywhere civilised id take the rohloff, knowing I can replace or have it repaired, if third world id take derailleurs. where a rohloff scores for me is commuting, its so reliable and trouble free, I've done about 25000km on one of mine, and its been like clockwork just a matter of an oil change and flipping the sprocket every 8000km or so.