Refurb/rebuild

guerney · Jul 7, 2022

It seems easier to buy downtube types with good quality cells. I mounted a downtube battery through a pallet wood plank onto my pannier rack - nuts and bolts through the battery mount, plank, rack, and flat steel chipboard joining plates.

guerney · Jul 8, 2022

I'd have preferred to have placed the battery on the frame, but I needed my bike to fold. I can fit pannier bags over the battery and clip them to the sides, unfortunately only the cheap and flimsy ones are designed so that's possible, which aren't terribly strong - zips don't last long and seams give way with heavy loads. I haven't bothered with pannier bags since I bought two bike trailers, a Homcom and a Carry Freedom Small Y.

Bikes4two · Jul 9, 2022

I bought a rack mounted battery but no matching rack but fitted it very nicely to the bike's exiting rack using rubber lined 'P' clips screwed into the battery case fitting points.
Whether that is possible for everyone depends on having suitably located rack attachment point too, but maybe worth a try?

Bonzo Banana · Jul 9, 2022

How many charge cycles is like how long is a piece of string. It really depends on what you base the percentage of capacity as. If you accept 70% capacity of the battery capacity then perhaps you can state 1000 charge cycles but if 80% perhaps 800 charge cycles etc. The thing is the easier the life the cell has the longer it lasts so if you discharge a cell at its maximum discharge current it won't last as long as 1/2 that discharge current. So a larger higher Ah battery pack with slightly inferior cells may actually last longer than a smaller lower Ah battery pack using better cells. Big battery pack and low current controller equals long lifespan vs small battery pack and high current controller equals short lifespan. Many entry level ebikes with low capacity battery packs are perhaps only getting 250-350 full capacity discharges before capacity starts reducing and that is probably due to being a low capacity Ah battery pack using more basic cells. The Gtech ebikes were notorious for short life battery packs and those battery packs were no bigger than a bicycle water bottle. I think they improved the cell quality and dropped the current output a bit in order to boost lifespan of the revised battery pack.

Also there are various sites that test different cells and good quality cells can be highly rated for different reasons, some could be charge cycles, others could be high discharge current, discharge temperature for safety or true capacity. You can have cells that have high discharge current capacity but mediocre charge cycles or cells with high capacity but lower discharge current etc. Often charge cycles is difficult to assess quickly as new batteries need to be tested over the long term to know that.

georgehenry · Jul 10, 2022

I recently bought a Yose no name cell silverfish battery that is working very well. I bought the bigger 36v15ah one for £165.62 delivered in March 2022 including charger.

I previously bought a similar Yose silverfish battery that is over four yeras old and still working well.

The price was obviously a big factor, but Yose batteries seem to be built to an acceptable level, or so I have found.

guerney · Jul 10, 2022

Benjahmin said:
I know ! It's a freakin nighmare. This all why I keep turning back to the e-bikebatteries one.
Stated as Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650BL cells, 28A maximum discharge. On a 17A max controller this should never see any stress. It comes with a mounting strip to fit to the existing rack.
Being Jimmie's company, I'm inclined to trust it.

36v 13.4Ah (28A Continuous Discharge) Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650BL Rear Rack – eBike Batteries

ebikebatteries.co.uk

However, at £465.98 with the charger it's well over twice the price of the similar capacity Yosepower that comes with it's rack. Claim a 20A max discharge on this one, no cell named.
Arrrrgh ! Round and round we go.

Those Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650BL cells have comparatively low discharge cycle life - it seems to be, that you can either have high current discharge capability or long discharge cycle life, but you can't have both. If Yose battery packs have good lifespan, I expect (not knowing much about ebike batteries) that they're not being thrashed to an early grave/landfill by being made to discharge at high amps, and that they're larger capacity packs, so that individual cells are not overly stressed.

Test/Review of Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650BL 3350mAh (Red)

Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650BL 3350mAh (Red) Official specifications: Cell Brand: Sanyo/Panasonic Cell Model: NCR18650BL Cell Size: 18650 Cell Typical capacity: 3350 mAh Cell Minimum capacity: 3250 mAh Rated voltage: 3.6V Discharge end voltage: 2.5V Standard charge: 1.62A to 4.2V Continuous...

budgetlightforum.com

guerney · Jul 10, 2022

georgehenry said:
I recently bought a Yose no name cell silverfish battery that is working very well. I bought the bigger 36v15ah one for £165.62 delivered in March 2022 including charger.

I previously bought a similar Yose silverfish battery that is over four yeras old and still working well.

The price was obviously a big factor, but Yose batteries seem to be built to an acceptable level, or so I have found.

This Yose power battery pack contains LiNiCoMnO2 ie NMC cells, a chemistry which appears to be used in a large number of electric car batteries, cellphones and laptops. Beyond that general info, there doesn't seem to be any more information about what the cells they use actually are. I do wish I knew more about battery cell chemistries.

36V15Ah/15.6Ah HL1-2 Hailong Down Tube Lithium-ion E-bike Battery

36V15Ah Hailong-I Down Tube Lithium-ion Battery Electric Bicycle E-bike DIY Black Battery

www.yosepower.co.uk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_nickel_manganese_cobalt_oxides#Use_of_NMC_electrodes

Scorpio · Jul 10, 2022

I bought a Yose kit with 36v battery about 2 years ago, soon upgraded the controller and set the current as high as possible before the battery / controller cut out (thermal overload?) From memory I got cutouts when set at 18A, it's been set at 17A ever since and often used at max assist levels so the battery is worked hard.
I'm careful to charge it a long time before I go out (the night before), and leave it a few hours after a ride before connecting the charger (to cool down).
For the first 18 months I had no car so the bike was my daily transport, for everything from commuting to shopping with panniers.
Battery is still strong and I'd happily buy another - but maybe in 48V next time.

guerney · Jul 11, 2022

Scorpio said:
I bought a Yose kit with 36v battery about 2 years ago, soon upgraded the controller and set the current as high as possible before the battery / controller cut out (thermal overload?) From memory I got cutouts when set at 18A, it's been set at 17A ever since and often used at max assist levels so the battery is worked hard.
I'm careful to charge it a long time before I go out (the night before), and leave it a few hours after a ride before connecting the charger (to cool down).
For the first 18 months I had no car so the bike was my daily transport, for everything from commuting to shopping with panniers.
Battery is still strong and I'd happily buy another - but maybe in 48V next time.

Sounds good. Approximately how many miles in total has your battery done? I'm now thinking I should let my battery cool before recharging - the only time I could feel it hot enough to be felt on the casing, is when it was running extremely low. I usually avoid depleting to low voltage cutoff, but sometimes it can't be helped, and occasionally it's wise to do so for calibration and subsequently more accurate balancing (or so I've read).

I would probably try a Yose battery, save for their battery mount which is incompatible with my existing battery case. I suppose I could rehouse the Yose battery pack into a compatible battery case, which of course adds to the cost. In theory minimal soldering would be required. Depends on whether the pack's volume can be accommodated. It's either that or quick release bolts to swap over the mounts plus batteries when needed, disconnecting/connecting with Anderson connectors. I've just seen a Youtube video about flood soldering of the connectors, which looks easy (when they do it).

Scorpio · Jul 11, 2022

Hi, background about my Yose kit.

About 1,500 kms on bike1, downtube battery fitted on the rear rack and hidden behind panniers https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/yose-350-rear-hub-kit-onto-spanish-mtb-by-mondraker.37899/

Kit was then stripped off, converted from Lisui controller to KT, the 26" motor dismantled and rebuilt into a 29" rim (which I feel reduced the torque noticiabley !) and transplanted onto bike2. It was my only transport for over a year so I'm guessing same mileage or more on this bike. https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/yose-350-rear-hub-kit-transplanted-onto-scott.40186/

If I was buying again, I like Yose but not their Lisui controllers, their price has gone up (I think all suppliers have), 48v seems to be common now so I'd try that, and I'd pick a motor with more torque / built for 29" rim (not take a medium torque motor and transplant it from 26" to 29")

guerney · Jul 11, 2022

Scorpio said:
Hi, background about my Yose kit.

About 1,500 kms on bike1, downtube battery fitted on the rear rack and hidden behind panniers https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/yose-350-rear-hub-kit-onto-spanish-mtb-by-mondraker.37899/

Kit was then stripped off, converted from Lisui controller to KT, the 26" motor dismantled and rebuilt into a 29" rim (which I feel reduced the torque noticiabley !) and transplanted onto bike2. It was my only transport for over a year so I'm guessing same mileage or more on this bike. https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/yose-350-rear-hub-kit-transplanted-onto-scott.40186/

If I was buying again, I like Yose but not their Lisui controllers, their price has gone up (I think all suppliers have), 48v seems to be common now so I'd try that, and I'd pick a motor with more torque / built for 29" rim (not take a medium torque motor and transplant it from 26" to 29")

That's good service from your Yose battery - if you ever do open it up, could you post photos of whatever cell markings there are? Perhaps Googling them will lead to more detail.

I think I need to increase the amps on my BBS01B controller from 15A to 20A, otherwise carrying very heavy trailer loads uphill is going to be extremely hard. I've got 9 PAS levels which can be customised in firmware, so levels 8 & 9 can be set to use 18A and 20A, for emergency temporary use. If something bursts into flames, I'll buy a Yose.

Az. · Jul 14, 2022

I have installed my downtube battery exactly as Guerney described. It turns out I am not as original and not as smart as I thought

Battery mounted on pannier rack can be concealed completely if you want to. I had such a plan, but then my wife told me she is proud to have an electric bike so I abandoned concealment project. You can also have panniers and battery on rack at the same time.

I bought Yose kit on Amazon with 2 years accidental damage third party insurance. I think they offered also 3 years damage and theft option. Worth to have a look if you are interested.

Edit:
Oh... and battery I bought with kit arrived dead. Took me few weeks to negotiate replacement with seller. Very frustrating experience, but I received new one eventually.

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