They can't be blamed for just continuing what they would ordinarily do in their own country can they ?
Red Light Jumping - Crack Down
- Thread starter my.motion
- Start date
Whoops, must have strayed on to the Daily Mail website. Should have paid attantion to the Red Light.
HMMMMM
Did you know that most London traffic policemen are Roma gypsies? And they get to keep 75% of all fines they give out.
WHERE DID YOU GET THAT GEM OF INFORMATION LOL ?
I LIKE THAT BEST JOKE I READ IN A WHILE
FATTS
Did you know that most London traffic policemen are Roma gypsies? And they get to keep 75% of all fines they give out.
WHERE DID YOU GET THAT GEM OF INFORMATION LOL ?
I LIKE THAT BEST JOKE I READ IN A WHILE
FATTS
I once saw a statement of similar profoundness to this. The author had written it on a wall using his finger as an instrument and his own excrement for ink. He was sat on the floor, close to his work, eating a fly.
It's such a shame that the authorities aren't in possession of your wisdom and knowledge eddio. I'm impressed by your ability to judge and write off an entire section of the public sector (Police and Justice System) based of your own personal experiences. You clearly have a gift which enables you, having had contact with a minuscule number of people from a certain profession, to then extrapolate this experience across the entire justice system.
I'm sure you are a big tough guy eddio. The sort that farts in the face of danger, has a few 'andy mates who'll get it sorted, that sort of thing. But alas, unfortunately, not everyone is as blessed as you.
A lot of people rely on the police, particularly the elderly and the vulnerable. And sometimes they receive an absolutely shocking service, far far below what is acceptable. Occasionally, they will end up at the hands of an officer who has slipped through the recruitment net. One who isn't capable and doesn't have the skills to do their job. Far more often though, the police do a good job.
Unfortunately, the good work doesn't very often get reported on. The less intelligent and the emotionally immature in society are quick to focus on the bad stuff. They like bad. They don't need coppers.
So, if, in your valuable opinion, the police are a waste of money, one assumes that you mean that we don't need them?
I knew a man who was having demands placed on him to part with a large sum of money. He refused to pay up. Two other people then held him down on the ground whilst a third took all of his teeth out this a screwdriver blade.
I know of a recently bereaved elderly woman who was visited by some, "builders." They turned up uninvited at her house. Put up a ladder, removed a roof tile, knocked on the door and pointed out the missing tile. She then agreed to them fixing it, after which they presented her with a £4000 bill. Because they were unable to accept cheques, they drove her to the building society to withdraw the money.
A neighbour of mine had his shed broken into and his hedge cutter and lawn mower stolen.
In the first case, the man lost his teeth and was an emotional wreck, frightened to leave the house. The police caught the three men and they went to prison for 10 years.
In the second case, a neighbour became suspicious and phoned the police. They stopped the van with the old woman in before they reached the bank. The, "builders" were arrested.
In the third case, the police didn't turn out. They gave the guy a crime number so that he could claim on his insurance.
In eddio world, only the third case is important. The police couldn't be bothered to turn out. They were too busy persecuting someone who thoroughly does not deserve it. Therefore the police are a waste of money.
Enlighten us all eddio, who do the people in case 1 and 2 turn to? Can't be the police because they are a waste of money?'
As a former Londoner, I find the "gypsy" allegation particularly bizzare given that metpol have had a well publicised history of problems in recruiting and retaining ethnic minority officers 
All that said, in my experience the old bill actually do a reasonable job of keeping together a fragile society. And being a younger person who grew up in the hedonistic times of raves and britpop, I have not always been on the "right" side of them for a variety of reasons! nothing too bad (no violence or theft) and even when I got in trouble I found cops to be "firm but fair".
I'd far rather have the British police and criminal justice system for all its flaws, bureaucracy and perceived "political correctness" than a bunch of self-appointed hard men running the show (this culture having been ousted to some extent from cops since the 1970s to 1990s), having been involved in certain youth subcultures and lived in certain areas where the second was ultimately the case.
in my old area (Reading) a cyclist was deliberately run over and badly injuried by a "self-appointed hard man" as a reprisal for an argument over money. Despite all the people involved being drug users and some from chaotic backgrounds, the cops managed to ensure that the bully was arrested, brought to justice and sent to prison for a very long time.
TBH even if they are using the fines to fund the overtime, what metpol are most probably doing here is training officers to join cycle units to eventually deal with the little scrotes who are going around on bikes committing more serious crimes (robberies and even gang executions!) as well as many bicycle thefts. it makes sense TBH to train these cops/PCSOs to firstly deal with mildly confrontational situations before putting them into situations with much less compliant adversaries..
there has been loads of publicity on various cycling sites about this initiative, yet cops can't brag about others to deal with gangs as much as they would lose the element of surprise, so they are seen as "persecuting otherwise law abiding people" when they are simply enforcing a well known traffic law which people have chosen to cherry pick to the risk of themselves and others..
All that said, in my experience the old bill actually do a reasonable job of keeping together a fragile society. And being a younger person who grew up in the hedonistic times of raves and britpop, I have not always been on the "right" side of them for a variety of reasons! nothing too bad (no violence or theft) and even when I got in trouble I found cops to be "firm but fair".
I'd far rather have the British police and criminal justice system for all its flaws, bureaucracy and perceived "political correctness" than a bunch of self-appointed hard men running the show (this culture having been ousted to some extent from cops since the 1970s to 1990s), having been involved in certain youth subcultures and lived in certain areas where the second was ultimately the case.
in my old area (Reading) a cyclist was deliberately run over and badly injuried by a "self-appointed hard man" as a reprisal for an argument over money. Despite all the people involved being drug users and some from chaotic backgrounds, the cops managed to ensure that the bully was arrested, brought to justice and sent to prison for a very long time.
TBH even if they are using the fines to fund the overtime, what metpol are most probably doing here is training officers to join cycle units to eventually deal with the little scrotes who are going around on bikes committing more serious crimes (robberies and even gang executions!) as well as many bicycle thefts. it makes sense TBH to train these cops/PCSOs to firstly deal with mildly confrontational situations before putting them into situations with much less compliant adversaries..
there has been loads of publicity on various cycling sites about this initiative, yet cops can't brag about others to deal with gangs as much as they would lose the element of surprise, so they are seen as "persecuting otherwise law abiding people" when they are simply enforcing a well known traffic law which people have chosen to cherry pick to the risk of themselves and others..
Last edited:
Not an allegation, Alex. I read it in the Daily Mail, so it MUST be true.
====================
(And before this gets thoroughly out of hand, OF COURSE I didn't, even though judging from the quality of the silly press I easily could have done. The VAST majority of coppers both in London and the rest of the country do an amazing job protecting society, for very little reward, plus having piles of crap and spit being showered on them at every turn. Quite literally in some cases.)
For the record, I am no fawning empire-loyalist, and politically I'm well to the left of Wedgwood Benn!
Allen.
As Allen rightly says, "before this gets throughly gets out of hand" can we return to the original subject of this thread?
Can we have a poll? "Have you ever cycled through a red lightand do you feel that you are breaking the law?"
Yes, I hold my hand up, I am guilty of running a red light but, only when I have (to my own mind checked that in my judgment, obviously flawed ) that it is safe to do so! Cambridge is a very cosmopolitan mix of cycling skills, each year there is a new influx of aspiring students and every year we have the typical safety/enforcement crackdown by the police and local authority for a day or two and then...................nothing!
Therefore: use your eyes and senses and you will be safe!
Regards,
Mike.
Can we have a poll? "Have you ever cycled through a red lightand do you feel that you are breaking the law?"
Yes, I hold my hand up, I am guilty of running a red light but, only when I have (to my own mind checked that in my judgment, obviously flawed
) that it is safe to do so! Cambridge is a very cosmopolitan mix of cycling skills, each year there is a new influx of aspiring students and every year we have the typical safety/enforcement crackdown by the police and local authority for a day or two and then...................nothing!Therefore: use your eyes and senses and you will be safe!
Regards,
Mike.
Mmmm...where did all this come from I wonder....
What is wrong with you exactly, the police are no different then the rest of our over bloated public sector.......Your astonishing justification being that we may just need them, if we get beaten up, garage robbed or live in media induced fear for our lives? Laughable! along with the personnel nature of your vitriol.
hey boys (or girls), I thought we were all friends on here... I have to say that my experience, which is really limited, has been a good one. However, as a public sector worker, I can empathise with lack of funding, not enough resources and very high expectations.
There are different degrees of this. I never "jump" a red light under any of the usual circumstances. However, on a known light sequence at one point and when the opposing traffic has stopped, I take off about 2 seconds earlier as the pedestrian phase lights indicate that it's about to change for my direction. My reason is that there's a pinch point ahead where there's not enough room for bikes and cars, so when taking off together a dangerous situation is created. By using that couple of seconds I'm past the pinch point and safely into a cycle lane as the first cars arrive.
Though I don't do this, a similarly "lesser" offence occurs when cyclists go through red when left turning and there's no vehicles or pedestrians about.
Both these are very different from jumping straight across red lights, and much more different from the antics of some couriers who weave through fast moving crossing traffic against red.
Of course all this is a long way of saying my offences are sensible ones.
.
There are a couple of sets of traffic lights which I pass most days on my way to work. Both sets seem to be set to bias traffic coming out of the side roads onto the main road. When I approach them along the main road in my car and if they are on green with no other traffic in the vicinity, they will change to red and the ones in the two side roads will change to green, even though there are no cars there. After about 15 to 20 seconds, the sequence will change to let me proceed again.
When I approach the same lights on my bike, the same thing happens, but strangely, they stay red on the main road until another car arrives behind me. Some mornings when it isn't busy, I can be waiting there for in excess of two minutes without a car in sight. Not surprisingly, I have taken to routinely ignoring these two particular sets of red lights and go straight through as a matter of course.
I have written to the council about it to report a fault, but they tell me that there isn't anything wrong with them, they are a traffic calming measure, apparently. Seems a bit odd to me. Other than that, I generally tend to obey traffic lights.
When I approach the same lights on my bike, the same thing happens, but strangely, they stay red on the main road until another car arrives behind me. Some mornings when it isn't busy, I can be waiting there for in excess of two minutes without a car in sight. Not surprisingly, I have taken to routinely ignoring these two particular sets of red lights and go straight through as a matter of course.
I have written to the council about it to report a fault, but they tell me that there isn't anything wrong with them, they are a traffic calming measure, apparently. Seems a bit odd to me. Other than that, I generally tend to obey traffic lights.
I do occasionally go through red lights due to cycling being permitted in bus lanes and malfunctioning detectors/badly configured signals.
That said I do wonder (as the detectors get fixed for a while after reporting and then stop detecting bikes) if the misconfiguration is deliberate (or due to a limitation in the kit used to detect vehicle sizes at lights) to stop motorists rat-running the bus lanes when there aren't any coppers around to stop them from doing so. I expect setting the detector to trigger on bikes probably lets cars through and then some motorists will get clever lawyers to argue in Court that "the lights were green..." and without CCTV (which isn't everywhere) its hard to prove if they were in the bus lane or not...
EA isn't by any means blighted by the crime levels of larger cities, but people are stubborn here (particularly younger motorists who feel they are invincible and have the right to the roads) and only obey laws when they are enforced.
Last night I saw a car blatantly go against a red light because it was late and there was no CCTV in that area (there was no duff kit, nor any bus lane there, they simply were not prepared to wait!)
That said I do wonder (as the detectors get fixed for a while after reporting and then stop detecting bikes) if the misconfiguration is deliberate (or due to a limitation in the kit used to detect vehicle sizes at lights) to stop motorists rat-running the bus lanes when there aren't any coppers around to stop them from doing so. I expect setting the detector to trigger on bikes probably lets cars through and then some motorists will get clever lawyers to argue in Court that "the lights were green..." and without CCTV (which isn't everywhere) its hard to prove if they were in the bus lane or not...
EA isn't by any means blighted by the crime levels of larger cities, but people are stubborn here (particularly younger motorists who feel they are invincible and have the right to the roads) and only obey laws when they are enforced.
Last night I saw a car blatantly go against a red light because it was late and there was no CCTV in that area (there was no duff kit, nor any bus lane there, they simply were not prepared to wait!)
Last edited:
That's pretty much what I do. It may not be entirely legal but it is common sense and gets you out of danger.
I find the instant acceleration away in 3rd or or 4th gear on my Kalkhoff Tasman a good safety factor too. Even level on the inside of a car at lights, I find I can get 4 or 5 metres ahead before the inertia of the car is overcome by power and it draws alongside me. It prevents the pinch, as flecc says and also the white van man manoeuvre of getting a metre in front of you and turning left so you can smack into his side.
By the way, what on earth is 'personnel nature'?
I will go through a light if I feel threatened by a vehicle behind me particularly if there are cars racing each other. There is usually the end of the pedestrian phase which is safer for me and causes no inconvenience to pedestrians. Last time I did this I was stuck in front of a revving idiot trying to intimidate me to get passed. I went through the light even though there was a police car behind as well. Clearly the idiot hadn't spotted this and roared off at the lights. Later on I had a "there is a god moment" as he was pulled over a mile down the road. Note the police stopped him not me even though I had technically broken the the law first.
Just been for a long ride to clear my head, this thread really wound me up this morning!
Therefore, (judging by the posts since my last) we agree that it is acceptable for a e-biker/cyclist to transgress the law if it is safe to do so? As in, No authoritarian presence in the vicinity, standing plod, cameras and the like!
At the risk of being somewhat inflammatory are we not then in that case all lawbreakers and should slap our wrists (slightly?)
Flecc, I'm with you on your comments on "couriers" who blatantly abuse the rules. I used to be a motorcycle courier in London in the mid-Eighties and it was an experience that I would never want to repeat! (Money was good though!) Even then, the cycle couriers were taking risks that a sane person would think suicidal. Obviously, it has got no better, hence the reason for this thread!
More fool you, if as I have said before you don't use your eyes and senses!
P.S. this post may be full of contradictions/stating the bleeding obvious but, please don't flame me, it's just the way I feel at the moment!
Therefore, (judging by the posts since my last) we agree that it is acceptable for a e-biker/cyclist to transgress the law if it is safe to do so? As in, No authoritarian presence in the vicinity, standing plod, cameras and the like!
At the risk of being somewhat inflammatory are we not then in that case all lawbreakers and should slap our wrists (slightly?)
Flecc, I'm with you on your comments on "couriers" who blatantly abuse the rules. I used to be a motorcycle courier in London in the mid-Eighties and it was an experience that I would never want to repeat! (Money was good though!) Even then, the cycle couriers were taking risks that a sane person would think suicidal. Obviously, it has got no better, hence the reason for this thread!
More fool you, if as I have said before you don't use your eyes and senses!
P.S. this post may be full of contradictions/stating the bleeding obvious but, please don't flame me, it's just the way I feel at the moment!
Last edited:
The temptation of a passing a red light where there's no danger to others is often too much for me. Oscar Wilde said you should resisy everythingexcept temptation, so I think it's ok
So I'm a hypocrite, but it's the idiots (usully couriers) who go flying through them into a stream of traffic that get me mad. When driving I've seen some near misses caused by that.
Most of the traffic police are ok towards cyclists. But why do they always need to go around in pairs You could save a lot of money or cover more ground by requiring them to go solo.
So I'm a hypocrite, but it's the idiots (usully couriers) who go flying through them into a stream of traffic that get me mad. When driving I've seen some near misses caused by that.
Most of the traffic police are ok towards cyclists. But why do they always need to go around in pairs
You could save a lot of money or cover more ground by requiring them to go solo.We're all hypocrites where the law is concerned - how many people here have illegal e-bikes? Have never crossed a red light? Never broken a speed limit?
With so much legislation, it would be impossible not to break laws. It's human to see other people's law-breaking as reprehensible and our own as 'minor' and justified.
The Labour government averaged about 2,600 new bits of legislation every year so since 1997, that's around 34,000 new laws in that period alone!
My pet dislike is car drivers using mobile phones - incredibly dangerous but the legislation is so widely ignored that I can't help thinking it would be better to to include driving one handed on the phone in the test.
Anyhow, must go, I am about to don my lycra and courier's bag and head off to my nearest pedestrian crossing to run down some old folk.
With so much legislation, it would be impossible not to break laws. It's human to see other people's law-breaking as reprehensible and our own as 'minor' and justified.
The Labour government averaged about 2,600 new bits of legislation every year so since 1997, that's around 34,000 new laws in that period alone!
My pet dislike is car drivers using mobile phones - incredibly dangerous but the legislation is so widely ignored that I can't help thinking it would be better to to include driving one handed on the phone in the test.
Anyhow, must go, I am about to don my lycra and courier's bag and head off to my nearest pedestrian crossing to run down some old folk.
This is standard practice for police in London and many other parts of the country, out of sheer necessity. Singly they are in very real danger of being attacked as some cases in London showed years ago, such as a young officer in the Balham area who was so severely beaten and kicked by a group of youngsters that his life hung in the balance for some while.Most of the traffic police are ok towards cyclists. But why do they always need to go around in pairs
In part it's one inevitable consequence of too many laws enforced in inequitable ways, creating widespread resentment and hatred. In part it's due those less capable individuals who are simply unable to cope with all the demands of modern life in our increasingly complex society, the current case of the man going beserk against the police and shooting one officer in the North East being an example.
The alternative of lone officers is only possible if they are armed all the time with guns as happens in many countries. It's our choice.
.
Even some "safe" rural areas of East Anglia routinely use double crewed Police units due to a long standing distrust of all authority, and perceived/actual social inequalities, dating back centuries to the 1700s!
A couple of years ago a WPC who challenged some youths in a Mid Suffolk village was badly attacked - not the area where you find "gangs" like London or Manchester but there is a culture of people here simply not bothering with conventional societies norms and sorting out disputes "by themselves", with the strongest men taking control. Not just amongst the young folk either!
A friend in another village also mentioned a bobby (ex-metpol) being similarly attacked (by the older men this time) for "enforcing too many petty traffic laws". he was left unconcious on the village green, and no one was caught.
Nowadays cops use 2-3 person crewed vehicles and on some occasions ARVs as legal firearm ownership is high in Suffolk (there was one in Stowmarket the day after the Raoul Moat incident). I'm personally aware of 100 cops being needed to clear a illegal rave after organisers had simply ignored a friendly warning to pack up and leave quietly, and 15 cops deployed in Ipswich to stop local youths bullying people from the immigrant communities (the youths were clearly more angry that the cops even dared to stop them than even their hatred for the foreigners!)
And indeed they do deal robustly with motorists breaking traffic laws such as using mobiles or anything else but its targeted swoops at major junctions, with cops, VOSA and a few other Government agencies. A lot of the time these unearth not just "petty" traffic offences but links to major criminality such as drugs and organised theft, and people wanted for violent offences.
There are also swoops on cyclists but people get a warning or two (usually about lack of lights, riding on footpaths or ignoring signals) before any fines are issued.
IMO if metpol have found it necessary to use that many units to enforce red lights at what is probably broad daylight peak traffic times (rather than the dead of night or against faulty signals) its a sad indictment on what passes for society these days.
I really don't see a red traffic signal as a "contentious piece of nanny state legislation" but a simple measure to ensure fair , equitable and safe access to the shared resource of the public highways, which has existed in various forms for decades if not over a century. Barring faulty equipment, even in "slow Suffolk" it usually takes less than a minute for traffic lights to change. Can people not even wait that long?
A couple of years ago a WPC who challenged some youths in a Mid Suffolk village was badly attacked - not the area where you find "gangs" like London or Manchester but there is a culture of people here simply not bothering with conventional societies norms and sorting out disputes "by themselves", with the strongest men taking control. Not just amongst the young folk either!
A friend in another village also mentioned a bobby (ex-metpol) being similarly attacked (by the older men this time) for "enforcing too many petty traffic laws". he was left unconcious on the village green, and no one was caught.
Nowadays cops use 2-3 person crewed vehicles and on some occasions ARVs as legal firearm ownership is high in Suffolk (there was one in Stowmarket the day after the Raoul Moat incident). I'm personally aware of 100 cops being needed to clear a illegal rave after organisers had simply ignored a friendly warning to pack up and leave quietly, and 15 cops deployed in Ipswich to stop local youths bullying people from the immigrant communities (the youths were clearly more angry that the cops even dared to stop them than even their hatred for the foreigners!)
And indeed they do deal robustly with motorists breaking traffic laws such as using mobiles or anything else but its targeted swoops at major junctions, with cops, VOSA and a few other Government agencies. A lot of the time these unearth not just "petty" traffic offences but links to major criminality such as drugs and organised theft, and people wanted for violent offences.
There are also swoops on cyclists but people get a warning or two (usually about lack of lights, riding on footpaths or ignoring signals) before any fines are issued.
IMO if metpol have found it necessary to use that many units to enforce red lights at what is probably broad daylight peak traffic times (rather than the dead of night or against faulty signals) its a sad indictment on what passes for society these days.
I really don't see a red traffic signal as a "contentious piece of nanny state legislation" but a simple measure to ensure fair , equitable and safe access to the shared resource of the public highways, which has existed in various forms for decades if not over a century. Barring faulty equipment, even in "slow Suffolk" it usually takes less than a minute for traffic lights to change. Can people not even wait that long?
Last edited:
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
