PSWPower after sales service?

[Hipaul]

Thank you Tony. My wife has a Carrera Crossfire which she likes but suffers with the gear selection. I'm guessing the quality may be price related so we looked at upgrading.
I'm thinking of changing her bike with a view of adding a crank drive at a later date. Hopefully this will be a more economic way of getting the bike she needs.

 

[vidtek]

my customers rarely need help with fitting crank drive kits and yet, in our workshop, it takes about the same amount of time and effort to fit a hub kit or a CD kit.
Front hub kits are definitely easiest to fit.
Points to watch:
If you have 160mm rotor, some hub motors are too large and will foul against the caliper requiring you to change to 180mm rotor.
Hub motors cannot be fitted to frames with bolt through quick releases.
Crank drive kits only fit standard 68mm or 73mm bottom bracket shells and won't fit most carbon fibre frames.
If you have cables running under the bottom bracket, the Tongsheng TSDZ2 will require moving the cables out.
If you have combined gearshifter and brake levers or STI levers, think of fitting the Tongsheng TSDZ2. It's a nice torque sensing kit, requiring no brake sensors.
If you need advice for any particular donor bike, let me know.
All the best,
Tony

Tony-
What is an STI lever and how do we know if we have one? Newbies and idiots like me need stuff like this to be explained in words of one syllable! Presumably the Tongsheng TSDZ2 is another make of kit like the discussed Bafang ones. I've researched bottom brackets so understand a bit about them, but much of bike terminology is a mystery to me.
Have you a suggestion for a (mainly) off-road crank drive kit suitable for my New Forest adventures that will fit my Specialized Crossroads (about 4 yrs old) bike?
If I can only get a non-legal one that isn't a problem, I'll just remove the battery when riding on the road, the bike is a very light one and I do very little riding on a highway, mainly 200yards down the road to the local shops next to the Bournemouth University. Give my regards to Andy btw.
Cheers, Tony

 

[Nealh]

Not always the case but with all my bikes past and present which I have fitted with hubs be it front or rear, the ali dropouts have needed filing deeper and up to 1mm wider to accommodate the Anti rotation washers and to allow the washers tabs to full sit in the drop out. Std qr axles are 9mm, hubs axles are 12mm for most though some do have 14mm axles. 2 or 3mm may be needed to be removed to enable the axle to sit deeper.

 

[Woosh]

the ali dropouts have needed filing deeper and up to 1mm wider to accommodate the Anti rotation washers and to allow the washers tabs to full sit in the drop out.

we have to do this sometimes but we also have to file off sometimes a bit of excess weld inside the bottom bracket where the seat tube and the down tube are joined. The dropout is easier to access. In both cases, it's a 5 minute job in a workshop. What takes time is something that we have to do the first time. That happens when you have an exotic bike. When this happens, we have to be two, one does the job, the other has to watch out for potential troubles.

 

[vidtek]

Don't anyone get me wrong, I'm not interested in a speedy bike, 15mph is plenty for me on a bicycle, I have no wish to go any faster. Coming off a bike at 15mph is bad enough, any faster and I could get seriously damaged!

What I am really interested in is the ability to do hills without the considerable effort I now require with my Freego Eagle. I have no interest in sweating my way through the forest, especially in the Summer.
If a legal kit with a 250w motor will give me the torque required, then I'll happily go for that.

The present 250w on the Freego Eagle just doesn't cut it, which is why I have been exploring the 750w option with pswpower.
I don't want to do my dough on a kit that won't do what it promises.

As I've never ridden a crank drive I have no idea of the sort of characteristics it has, all proponents say the crank drive is better for hills than hub motors, but will a 250w motor be sufficient? They have internal controllers so heat dissipation could be a problem with less current handling capability. Please everyone let me have your thoughts.
Tony.

 

[Woosh]

As I've never ridden a crank drive I have no idea of the sort of characteristics it has, all proponents say the crank drive is better for hills than hub motors, but will a 250w motor be sufficient? They have internal controllers so heat dissipation could be a problem with less current handling capability. Please everyone let me have your thoughts.

I love crank drives! you get the natural weight distribution and power delivery. Email support@wooshbikes.co.uk about your project, we can discuss it much better.

The 48V TSDZ2 is very capable on hills, especially if you fit a double chainring.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?cdkit#tsdz2

This thread is about PSWPOWER kits, I apologise for the digression.

 

[Nealh]

BBS power is down to the programming and probably needs a lead and the down load software (free) to enable better power from them. I find with my BBS01 even in level 9, I have to work hard on steep off-road conditions (uneven gravel/treelined routes). For me I expect my issue is lack of leg strength and Asthma, my travel speed on steep inclines off-road is about 6-7mph.
One controller has failed with my BBS and this was a factory set one without re-programming.
Most seem to opt for the BBSHD for it's very high torque, though also expect speed is also a factor. These need high performance batteries to be at their best.
For your requirement's then sounds like 750 or BBSHD is better, max power being around 1kw or more.

The decision then is pas drive or torque drive, the latter will supply power in proportion to your input whilst pas requires a gentler cadence.
BBS01 typically about 540-648w max output before inefficacy losses , TSDZ is 48v so 768w max output before losses.

 

[Hipaul]

Tony
My wife hired an electric Scott bike with crank drive yesterday and we covered most of Dalby forest in North Yorkshire. Obviously getting lost didn't help but we were riding for four hours and she loved the assistance provided by the bike. It's rated at 500w and used half of the battery power during our ride. It supplied adequate power only when pedalling when set to touring by the hire shop. There is a higher setting but she didn't feel the need to use it and battery life would suffer I guess. Btw on a manual bike I was absolutely jiggered.

 

[vidtek]

I love crank drives! you get the natural weight distribution and power delivery. Email support@wooshbikes.co.uk about your project, we can discuss it much better.

The 48V TSDZ2 is very capable on hills, especially if you fit a double chainring.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?cdkit#tsdz2

This thread is about PSWPOWER kits, I apologise for the digression.

sent email-Tony.

 

[vidtek]

BBS power is down to the programming and probably needs a lead and the down load software (free) to enable better power from them. I find with my BBS01 even in level 9, I have to work hard on steep off-road conditions (uneven gravel/treelined routes). For me I expect my issue is lack of leg strength and Asthma, my travel speed on steep inclines off-road is about 6-7mph.
One controller has failed with my BBS and this was a factory set one without re-programming.
Most seem to opt for the BBSHD for it's very high torque, though also expect speed is also a factor. These need high performance batteries to be at their best.
For your requirement's then sounds like 750 or BBSHD is better, max power being around 1kw or more.

The decision then is pas drive or torque drive, the latter will supply power in proportion to your input whilst pas requires a gentler cadence.
BBS01 typically about 540-648w max output before inefficacy losses , TSDZ is 48v so 768w max output before losses.

Neal, Thank you for this.
So a pas drive needs more pedal power from me up the hills? I've not seen any BBSHD kits for sale.
Ideally I would just like a kit that is road legal and has enough grunt to get me up those gravelly ridges in the New Forest without me sweating. I want to enjoy the scenery and listen to the wildlife not be puffing and panting along those tracks.

 

[wheeliepete]

So a pas drive needs more pedal power from me up the hills?

No not really, PAS supplies power depending on the level of assistance you select, like your hub motor, torque sensing ups the power to match your input, more power from you, more power from the motor.

 

[sjpt]

Indeed, if the motor is powerful enough and appropriately geared, you can get up will with NO effort with PAS; just keep pedalling fast enough the PAS engages (hardly any speed at all) but slow enough you are not actually pushing the gears.

I think typical torque multiplier systems have 250% or 300% maximum multiplication, so (at 300%) you need to provide at least 1/4 of the power, while the motor provides the other 3/4.

 

[Woosh]

Indeed, if the motor is powerful enough and appropriately geared, you can get up will with NO effort with PAS; just keep pedalling fast enough the PAS engages (hardly any speed at all) but slow enough you are not actually pushing the gears.

I think typical torque multiplier systems have 250% or 300% maximum multiplication, so (at 300%) you need to provide at least 1/4 of the power, while the motor provides the other 3/4.

I keep the TSDZ2 with throttle in stock. In case your legs are tired, you can use the throttle to ride home without pedaling.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-206-tsdz2t/tsdz2-cd-kit-48v-15a-250w-with-throttle-kit

 

[Nealh]

Neal, Thank you for this.
So a pas drive needs more pedal power from me up the hills? I've not seen any BBSHD kits for sale.
Ideally I would just like a kit that is road legal and has enough grunt to get me up those gravelly ridges in the New Forest without me sweating. I want to enjoy the scenery and listen to the wildlife not be puffing and panting along those tracks.

750 bbs or BBSHD not road or off-road legal only TSDZ is legal as it is marked 250w.

 

[soundwave]

TSDZ is legal as it is marked 250w.

good luck with that in court pmsl

 

[sjpt]

Surely none of them is legal if a throttle is fitted unless it is very constrained as to how it can operate?

 

[Woosh]

Surely none of them is legal if a throttle is fitted unless it is very constrained as to how it can operate?

The banning of the throttle is often misunderstood.
Throttles are not banned, only the twist and go throttle is banned on factory made bikes.
it is applicable only to the manufacturers and importers. Customers are not prosecuted for having it fitted or using it.
Indeed, throttle is usually supplied as a separate item, for the customer to plug in as and when he/she needs it.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The banning of the throttle is often misunderstood.
Throttles are not banned, only the twist and go throttle is banned on factory made bikes.
it is applicable only to the manufacturers and importers. Customers are not prosecuted for having it fitted or using it.
Indeed, throttle is usually supplied as a separate item, for the customer to plug in as and when he/she needs it.

In the UK - it is a UK exception do not think you can use one on holiday on the continent. Of course there are bikes equiped with throttles here but they are not legal whether kit or not.

 

[Nealh]

In the UK if you have a throttle after 2016 it can only be actuated after pedalling, if it is stand alone use it is not legal.

 

[vidtek]

OK guys, I get what you are all saying, and I agree, legal is best.
However, if I can't get a kit with enough grunt to assist me up those gravelly hills without sweating too much, then I'll go for a 750w kit.

So far no-one has said that a 250w kit is actually capable of doing this.

I don't want to spend the best part of £6-700 and still be disappointed, I would rather have the illegal kit and just use it off-road.