Prices of the electricity we use to charge

[MikelBikel]

Global Temperature and CO2---Which Drives Which?

The climate alarmist crowd never tires of insisting that anthropogenic additions to atmospheric carbon dioxide---up by 45 percent, from 280 to about 407 parts per million, since before the Industrial Revolution---are driving historically unprecedented and likely-to-become catastrophic global warming

cornwallalliance.org

Interesting, co2 lags *Behind* temperature.
Science , Not "sceance"

 

[Peter.Bridge]

View attachment 60628
Earthobservatory.nasa.gov
No hockey stick in 1999..
It's cooler than the 1930's.
Thought they'd binned all these old, accurate graphs, haha

'Little Ice Age'?, 1650 to 1700ish. What happened then? No camp fires for 50yrs maybe, hehe.

Greenies better not look at medieval warm period either then, c900 to c1300. Coz there's no industry to explain it!
View attachment 60629
"prosperous time in European history. The interval was concurrent with Norse explorations of the New World, the founding of Norse settlements in Iceland and Greenland, and increased agricultural productivity and crop diversity in northern Europe"
Can't have that wine in England, can we, meanie greenies?

Medieval warm period (MWP) | Britannica

Medieval warm period (MWP), brief climatic interval that is hypothesized to have occurred from approximately 900 ce to 1300 (roughly coinciding with the Middle Ages in Europe), in which relatively warm conditions are said to have prevailed in various parts of the world, though predominantly in the

www.britannica.com

Can you link to the original source of your graph of US temperatures ?
Why have you not shown the last 25 years on your graph of US temperatures ?

Do you know why the temperatures were so high in the US in the 1930s and 1940s ?


How and when did H. H. Lamb produce his Central England temperature reconstruction ?

(See appendix a)

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Global Temperature and CO2---Which Drives Which?

The climate alarmist crowd never tires of insisting that anthropogenic additions to atmospheric carbon dioxide---up by 45 percent, from 280 to about 407 parts per million, since before the Industrial Revolution---are driving historically unprecedented and likely-to-become catastrophic global warming

cornwallalliance.org

Interesting, co2 lags *Behind* temperature.
Science , Not "sceance"
View attachment 60633

Do you understand why ?

CO2 lags temperature - what does it mean?

<p>When the Earth comes out of an ice age, the warming is not initiated by CO2 but by changes in the Earth's orbit. The warming causes the oceans to give up CO2. The CO2 amplifies the warming and mixes through the atmosphere, spreading warming throughout the planet. So CO2 causes warming...

skepticalscience.com

 

[soundwave]

pussy on strike !!!

 

[lenny]

The incel trap

Angry and lonely young men can easily enter a web of hatred against women online. Is there a way out?

The incel trap

Angry and lonely young men can easily enter a web of hatred against women online. Is there a way out?

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk

 

[Ghost1951]

For the vast majority of that time, humans didn't exist.

Absolutely right. Humans evolved during one of the coldest periods the earth has ever known and were for a lot of that time restricted to Africa and the tropics. We are a naked ape and are unsuited to life outside the tropics without technology to keep us warm. This is still true today. In order to extend our range outside tropical environments we need warm clothing and heating. Try living without it. Go outside and take a long walk in your bathing trunks even now, let alone in winter. Try spending a night outside like that, and you risk death.

We also need technological developments to enable us to continue eating during winter in latitudes outside the tropics. Large scale food storage and transport are essential in the higher latitudes, because food does not grow there in the winter time. Animals would starve in the fields unless farmers produced and stored large amounts of grass for winter in the form of hay and silage. This is not true in the tropics where we evolved in African forests and Savannah. The cradle of our species can be seen today in countries like Tanzania. The earliest remains of hominid species are found in East Africa. It is a great deal warmer there than the mean global temperature. The mean annual temperature in Tanzania is 23 - 26 degrees c.

Global Warming isn't a problem for the Earth, it's a problem for humans i.e. speed of the current warming and where people live

I have said many times as you will recall, that CONTINUED and EXTENSIVE warming will have serious impacts on SOME people and some impacts on others. Quite how much is debatable.

My use of the NOAA graph of the last half billion year temperature was to put in context the rather problematic use of temperature anomaly graphs which are pretty much all we see these days. They exaggerate the current warming by making very large changes on the Y axis when the absolute value of changes is very small. One degree C is a small change which may increase storm severity, but these impacts are not yet world changing with the rise in co2 levels from 240ppm to 417ppm. For context 417ppm of co2 means that co2 is at one molecule in every 2398 of the air. For every molecule of co2 in the atmosphere there are 2400 other gas molecules. Co2 in earth's atmosphere is a trace gas even now.

Photosynthesis stops at co2 levels of 150 ppm. All plants die.

The pre -industrial levels of co2 around 240 ppm are very low by earth's long term standards. Greenhouse growers artificially elevate co2 in their greenhouses to 1000 parts per million to increase plant growth and productivity. Moderately higher levels of co2 will green the earth very much more than it now is.

Try googling "what is the optimum atmospheric co2 concentration for plant productivity?"

 

[soundwave]

its to cold to grow cheese out side every one i tried dead

 

[lenny]

Incels and the Gaming-Radicalization Nexus
Many incels, including Genco, frequent bespoke online forums which thematically focus on their experiences as incels, “blackpilling” each other, and promoting misogynistic views.

IntelBrief: Incels and the Gaming-Radicalization Nexus - The Soufan Center

In a landmark case, an Ohio man became the first “incel” to be convicted of a federal hate crime in the U.S. last month and was sentenced to six years and eight months in prison.

thesoufancenter.org

 

[lenny]

 

[Woosh]

Try googling "what is the optimum atmospheric co2 concentration for plant productivity?"

CO2 is poisonous. The average concentration in the atmosphere tells only part of the story. If you breathe tailpipe gas, you'll lose consciousness in seconds and die in about 3 minutes of CO2 poisoning. Consider this: life on earth is concentrated in just a couple of kms on the surface of the earth while CO2 concentration goes 1000 miles into the earth crust. We still don't know how many species will be wiped out every year until we make our planet sustainable.

 

[Chainring]

I've been reading many of these posts and learned a lot. I think there are people on here who are sceptical of 'Net Zero'. I have been slow to catch on! We had a lady at the door offering free solar panels, heat pump etc. When I declined (she was the eighth one to visit) she offered a new (flat) roof FREE! I take it that many others are reluctant so they are pushing hard.

 

[Ghost1951]

CO2 is poisonous. The average concentration in the atmosphere tells only part of the story. If you breathe tailpipe gas, you'll lose consciousness in seconds and die in about 3 minutes of CO2 poisoning. Consider this: life on earth is concentrated in just a couple of kms on the surface of the earth while CO2 concentration goes 1000 miles into the earth crust. We still don't know how many species will be wiped out every year until we make our planet sustainable.

What?

I am pretty surprised to see those remarks. You need to learn about this subject before spouting rubbish.

CO2 is the medium by which all of life gets its carbon. We are carbon based life forms. CO2 is poisonous in the same way as water is poisonous if you take a person and submerge them in it and keep them there. Oxygen is poisonous to new born infants BUT ONLY IN VERY HIGH CONCENTRATIONS.

By very high, I mean in the context of co2 over 10% of the gas breathed.

Right now, the co2 content of the atmosphere is 0.037%. That is a VERY long way from 10%. You would need to increase the concentration 270 times to reach that level. It would be ridiculous, as is you statement. In the whole of the period since the Industrial Revolution, our species has increased the co2 concentration of the atmosphere from about 250 parts per million to 417 parts per million that means from one molecule of co2 per 4000 molecules of air, to one molecule of co2 per 2400 of air. It is a trace gas in our atmosphere.

To become poisonous, co2 would need to be 100,000 parts per million.

The exhaust from a car tailpipe should be around 14% co2. No body pipes a car exhaust into their lungs. FAR more poisonous is the C0 content of car exhaust - carbon monoxide. It interferes with the ability of the blood to carry oxygen. It is a gas controlled by emission regulations. If you light your gas cooker in the kitchen, the CO is produced but not controlled.

Everything I said is true. You were talking nonsense.

Greenhouse growers DO increase the C02 concentration of their growing environment to almost three times the current natural level. Their workers function perfectly well in that environment and the plants do much better, grow faster and produce heavier crops. This is why the growers think the expense of concentrating co2 is worthwhile.

The final paragraph of your comment is also bizarre. CO2 locked up in carbonate rocks in the earth's crust is not affected at all by what is going on in the current atmosphere. That rocky version of co2 under our feet, was fixed millions and billions of years ago by sea creatures in their shells, mostly at times when the natural concentration of co2 was about ten times what it is now. Ancient atmospheric co2 dissolved in oceans, and was taken up by microscopic sea creatures and shelled animals and sank to the bottom of the oceans when they died, eventually forming limestone and chalk. ALL life on earth depends on co2 being above 150 parts per million. At that level, photosynthesis stops and plants no longer survive at all. Where would we be then?

 

[Woosh]

I thought you may think I don't make sense. What I meant is look at the gradient. All the charts you quoted were about average concentration of CO2 once it is diluted into the high atmosphere and into the seas and into everything else.
The gradient is more important in terms of rising temperatures where large populations live, than the average.
Saneagle also made the same mistake when talking about sea temperatures.

 

[flecc]

CO2 is poisonous. The average concentration in the atmosphere tells only part of the story. If you breathe tailpipe gas, you'll lose consciousness in seconds and die in about 3 minutes of CO2 poisoning. Consider this: life on earth is concentrated in just a couple of kms on the surface of the earth while CO2 concentration goes 1000 miles into the earth crust. We still don't know how many species will be wiped out every year until we make our planet sustainable.

What?

I am pretty surprised to see those remarks. You need to learn about this subject before spouting rubbish.

CO2 is the medium by which all of life gets its carbon. We are carbon based life forms. CO2 is poisonous in the same way as water is poisonous if you take a person and submerge them in it and keep them there. Oxygen is poisonous to new born infants BUT ONLY IN VERY HIGH CONCENTRATIONS.

By very high, I mean in the context of co2 over 10% of the gas breathed.

Right now, the co2 content of the atmosphere is 0.037%. That is a VERY long way from 10%. You would need to increase the concentration 270 times to reach that level. It would be ridiculous, as is you statement. In the whole of the period since the Industrial Revolution, our species has increased the co2 concentration of the atmosphere from about 250 parts per million to 417 parts per million that means from one molecule of co2 per 4000 molecules of air, to one molecule of co2 per 2400 of air. It is a trace gas in our atmosphere.

To become poisonous, co2 would need to be 100,000 parts per million.

The exhaust from a car tailpipe should be around 14% co2. No body pipes a car exhaust into their lungs. FAR more poisonous is the C0 content of car exhaust - carbon monoxide. It interferes with the ability of the blood to carry oxygen. It is a gas controlled by emission regulations. If you light your gas cooker in the kitchen, the CO is produced but not controlled.

Everything I said is true. You were talking nonsense.

Greenhouse growers DO increase the C02 concentration of their growing environment to almost three times the current natural level. Their workers function perfectly well in that environment and the plants do much better, grow faster and produce heavier crops. This is why the growers think the expense of concentrating co2 is worthwhile.

The final paragraph of your comment is also bizarre. CO2 locked up in carbonate rocks in the earth's crust is not affected at all by what is going on in the current atmosphere. That rocky version of co2 under our feet, was fixed millions and billions of years ago by sea creatures in their shells, mostly at times when the natural concentration of co2 was about ten times what it is now. Ancient atmospheric co2 dissolved in oceans, and was taken up by microscopic sea creatures and shelled animals and sank to the bottom of the oceans when they died, eventually forming limestone and chalk. ALL life on earth depends on co2 being above 150 parts per million. At that level, photosynthesis stops and plants no longer survive at all. Where would we be then?

The Lake Nyos disaster
.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I have said many times as you will recall, that CONTINUED and EXTENSIVE warming will have serious impacts on SOME people and some impacts on others. Quite how much is debatable.

On the contrary, most of the impacts are well understood, both geographically and topically

Fact Sheets

The regional and crosscutting fact sheets give a snapshot of the key findings, distilled from the relevant Chapters and Cross-Chapter Papers, the Technical Summary and the Global to Regional Atlas.

www.ipcc.ch

My use of the NOAA graph of the last half billion year temperature was to put in context the rather problematic use of temperature anomaly graphs which are pretty much all we see these days. They exaggerate the current warming by making very large changes on the Y axis when the absolute value of changes is very small.

You don't seem to understand why temperature anomalies are used

Global Surface Temperature Anomalies | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

The Merged Land and Ocean Surface Temperature data are presented as anomalies (departures from a long-term average) on a five-degree by five-degree global grid. The period of record is January 1880 through the most recent month.

www.ncei.noaa.gov

.

One degree C is a small change which may increase storm severity, but these impacts are not yet world changing with the rise in co2 levels from 240ppm to 417ppm.

You also don't seem to understand the difference between Transient Climate Response and Equilibrium Climate sensitivity

For context 417ppm of co2 means that co2 is at one molecule in every 2398 of the air. For every molecule of co2 in the atmosphere there are 2400 other gas molecules. Co2 in earth's atmosphere is a trace gas even now.

So what ? It is the infrared absorption characteristics that are relevant

Try googling "what is the optimum atmospheric co2 concentration for plant productivity?"

This was the answer I got

You can cherry-pick the CO2 fertilization effect from the overall effect of adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, but that is not how the world—or its climate—works.

Ask the Experts: Does Rising CO2 Benefit Plants?

Climate change’s negative effects on plants will likely outweigh any gains from elevated atmospheric carbon dioxide levels

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[lenny]

 

[MikelBikel]

So greenies can't control volcanoes? Who would've thunk it? Maybe they can work their "Zero" magic on them?

Mount Pinatubo, Philippines 1991, rapid cooling by blocking the Sun..

Tonga seems to be erupting every year? Including biggest ever underwater one (recorded, I assume). Would that water vapour affect temperature? Yes.

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/tongan-volcano-eruption-unleashed-highest-plume-record-2022-11-03/

The planet sees your piffling co2 and raises you.. hold on how is this measured? Mmm
At Mauna Loa observatory, down slope from.. an active volcano!

Volcano Watch: Gas math — how we know how much sulfur dioxide volcanoes emit - West Hawaii Today

Volcanic gases are an important part of eruptions — they help magma to rise within the earth and erupt, they can tell us how much lava is being erupted, and the volcanic air pollution (vog) they cause can be a hazard. So it is important for the USGS Hawaiian Volcano Observatory (HVO) to measure...

www.westhawaiitoday.com

Inadvertently gives themselves away!

 

[Woosh]

V2G is now available in Australia. Expect UK to follow suite.
Octopus reckons you can save up to £850 a year.

‘The scale of this is jaw-dropping’, says Octopus on the 'first' mass-market V2G tariff

Alex Schoch, head of flexibility at Octopus Energy, sits down with Current± to discuss the development of V2G technology, how it can be applied to the UK’s current EV landscape and what the implications will be once it is widely adopted.

www.current-news.co.uk

.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

View attachment 60634
So greenies can't control volcanoes? Who would've thunk it? Maybe they can work their "Zero" magic on them?

Mount Pinatubo, Philippines 1991, rapid cooling by blocking the Sun..

Tonga seems to be erupting every year? Including biggest ever underwater one (recorded, I assume). Would that water vapour affect temperature? Yes.

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/tongan-volcano-eruption-unleashed-highest-plume-record-2022-11-03/

The planet sees your piffling co2 and raises you.. hold on how is this measured? Mmm
At Mauna Loa observatory, down slope from.. an active volcano!

Volcano Watch: Gas math — how we know how much sulfur dioxide volcanoes emit - West Hawaii Today

Volcanic gases are an important part of eruptions — they help magma to rise within the earth and erupt, they can tell us how much lava is being erupted, and the volcanic air pollution (vog) they cause can be a hazard. So it is important for the USGS Hawaiian Volcano Observatory (HVO) to measure...

www.westhawaiitoday.com

Inadvertently gives themselves away!

You've still got plenty to go https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php

 

[saneagle]

When Trump weeds out all the government corruption, do you think that the climate change data will get adjusted, or will it get adjusted to show no climate change for some other reason?

Here's his plan from a year ago. No wonder they tried to kill him three times. It looks pretty good to me. Hopefully UK can learn from USA so that we can get the same:

https://x.com/i/status/1854717077837562314