Prices of the electricity we use to charge

Ghost1951

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In the complicated self delusional world of carbon accounting, it all depends on where the boundary is drawn. That's roughly how wood burning power stations get away with it.

If woodland / tree planting / other biofuels are dedicated to a particular purpose, then the emissions of one can be set against the carbon absorption of the other. Net zero.
Yes - that is how it is thought about, but of course, fossilised carbon in the form of oil and coal and even much lower carbon releasing methane gas, is permanently locked up right until we dig it up and set fire to it. Once out in the open, that carbon - now carbon dioxide, may be absorbed by trees or other biology, but even when it is, and we create a forest, that forest eventually decays or is burned and the co2 is back in the air, so as you suggest in your first sentence, the idea that we can mitigate the release is in fact delusional - at least in the ways we try to mitigate carbon release at the moment. If it were permanently put under ground in some manner, that would be different.

So - once that carbon is released from oil or coal or gas burning, it is pretty much out and free for the foreseeable future. There are natural permanent de-carbonising processes, they are pretty much the same ones that the planet used to make our oil, coal and gas reserves, but they are VERY VERY slow, operating over millions of years.

Your remarks about the bio mass burning are on point. There never was a worse example of greenwash than suggesting that chopping up American ancient forests, chipping and drying the wood and shipping it over the Atlantic to be burned at Drax, is in any way a green solution. It is a monstrous lie and a terrible environmental crime. The wood chip companies are supposed to use waste wood and trash from forestry operations - the branches and side shoots, but they have been filmed chipping whole trees in huge numbers.
 
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Woosh

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Think back to December, when for a month the rather splendid installed wind generating capacity of around 30 Gigawatts averaged an actual generation of about 10 gigawatt. Of course, at that point in the year, solar was negligible. There were many days when the actual wind output was as low as 1 Gwatt. I check almost every day and it was obvious and is obvious that we can never be free of gas turbines at least as a backup.
Batteries are still too expensive at the moment but even so, 9.4 GW of new capacity have been installed in the USA in 2024, 71GW worldwide. It is expected that battery price will continue to drop 10% a year, new installations double every year. In a generation, the grid will be pan-european,
there won't be any need for gas power stations.
 
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Woosh

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LiFeP04 battery, thought they were the "safer" ones?
"Hydrofluoric acid" cloud over Melbourne and toxic runoff. Make a pretty sunrise? :cool:
It's a bit of hysteria there. LFP batteries contain some fluorite but the amount of HF released is not particularly large in comparison to all the other substances in the smokes and flames. Large fires are dangerous but do you know how many people got hurt in that fire? Most people around the fire including firefighters did not even wear face masks.
 

matthewslack

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Batteries are still too expensive at the moment but even so, 9.4 GW of new capacity have been installed in the USA in 2024, 71GW worldwide. It is expected that battery price will continue to drop 10% a year, new installations double every year. In a generation, the grid will be pan-european,
there won't be any need for gas power stations.
Batteries need to have both GW and GWh numbers quoting to give the full picture. Some systems are designed for peak power shaving at very high reward per GWh, but not many GWh. Others more for slightly longer term storage. A developing field.
 

Ghost1951

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Batteries are still too expensive at the moment but even so, 9.4 GW of new capacity have been installed in the USA in 2024, 71GW worldwide. It is expected that battery price will continue to drop 10% a year, new installations double every year. In a generation, the grid will be pan-european,
there won't be any need for gas power stations.
Yeah?

Really?

This is Right now. Our 30gwatts of installed capacity is generating only 1.6gwatts of actual power.

61969

We are currently drawing 24.82 gwatts from gas fired power stations. The huge 9 Gwatt hour of battery power you speak of in the USA is only enough to replace that gas power for 21 minutes and 45 seconds. The problem is Tony - the wind has been like this all day and was pretty much the same yesterday. What do we do without gas?

You keep on asserting that we will not need gas and NEVER EVER face the reality of variable wind and complete absence of wind, which can extend for many days at a time. You assert these things almost like an article of faith spoken of by a religious fundamentalist. It isn't true and it isn't going to happen.

As for international cooperation.... Dream on. When there is a calm spell like this one the weather system extends right across our neighbour's territory. Consider this wind chart for mid day today. The system is sitting right over continental Europe. They have no wind either - even less than we have actually.

61970

Well, I sat in the dark last week after storm Eowyn, and survived. I suppose we can all do that and maybe light a candle in a plant pot to stave off the January chill.

Meanwhile China has (according to google) 3092 operating coal fired power stations and burns 4.5 billion metric tonnes of coal a year and that creates 16.5 billion tons of co2.

1 tonne of coal burned makes 3.67 tons of co2.
 
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Woosh

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Yeah?

Really?

This is Right now. Our 30gwatts of installed capacity is generating only 1.6gwatts of actual power.

View attachment 61969

We are currently drawing 24.82 gwatts from gas fired power stations. The huge 9 Gwatt hour of battery power you speak of in the USA is only enough to replace that gas power for 21 minutes and 45 seconds. The problem is Tony - the wind has been like this all day and was pretty much the same yesterday. What do we do without gas?

You keep on asserting that we will not need gas and NEVER EVER face the reality of variable wind and complete absence of wind, which can extend for many days at a time. You assert these things almost like an article of faith spoken of by a religious fundamentalist. It isn't true and it isn't going to happen.

As for international cooperation.... Dream on. When there is a calm spell like this one the weather system extends right across our neighbour's territory. Consider this wind chart for mid day today. The system is sitting right over continental Europe. They have no wind either - even less than we have actually.

View attachment 61970

Well, I sat in the dark last week after storm Eowyn, and survived. I suppose we can all do that and maybe light a candle in a plant pot to stave off the January chill.

Meanwhile China has (according to google) 3092 operating coal fired power stations and burns 4.5 billion metric tonnes of coal a year and that creates 16.5 billion tons of co2.

1 tonne of coal burned makes 3.67 tons of co2.
In a generation, storage capacity will be 500-1000 times the current capacity.
 
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Ghost1951

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In a generation, storage capacity will be 500-1000 times the current capacity.
And you based that assertion on what?

In fact, you just made it up. This is something you have in common with that buffoon Miliband. He will no doubt come out in support of withdrawing the license to operate the new Rosebank gas field, which according to the press is just about ready to start producing. Like you, he will be dreaming that something useful will come along in the next few years. Of course, he will be out of power before the lights go out - so who cares.

The people will not tolerate the disaster that is being devised here. They won't stand for it. There will be a revolution if we are deliberately reduced to the disaster that is being set in motion here.
 
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Woosh

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And you based that assertion on what?

In fact, you just made it up. This is something you have in common with that buffoon Miliband. He will no doubt come out in support of withdrawing the license to operate the new Rosebank gas field, which according to the press is just about ready to start producing. Like you, he will be dreaming that something useful will come along in the next few years. Of course, he will be out of power before the lights go out - so who cares.

The people will not tolerate the disaster that is being devised here. They won't stand for it. There will be a revolution if we are deliberately reduced to the disaster that is being set in motion here.
Sam Evan youtuber electric viking. He does a lot of videos about solar, batteries and evs. I watch hundreds of his videos.
 
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matthewslack

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It doesn't take much power to literally keep the lights on.

The big unexploited tool is a fair way off yet, because we are all to some degree greedy, selfish, resistant to change, untrustworthy, and inveterate cheats and fiddlers if we can see advantage for ourselves.

But imagine if we could all participate fairly in the rewards for reducing consumption at critical times. Remember a few weeks ago those extraordinary unit prices promised to a couple of gas power stations for short term capacity?

That would get quite a lot of people quite excited.
 

lenny

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'My £5,700 energy bill was cancelled because supplier broke rules'

"Our back billing rules

These rules set out when a supplier can charge you for any shortfalls in payment for energy you’ve used.

You cannot be charged for energy used more than 12 months ago if:

  • you have not had an accurate bill for it before, even though you asked for one
  • you have not been informed about any charges due via a statement of account before
  • your Direct Debit amount was previously set too low to cover any charges due

Suppliers must make these rules clear in their contract terms and conditions.

The rules apply to domestic energy consumers and microbusinesses."

 

Ghost1951

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It doesn't take much power to literally keep the lights on.

The big unexploited tool is a fair way off yet, because we are all to some degree greedy, selfish, resistant to change, untrustworthy, and inveterate cheats and fiddlers if we can see advantage for ourselves.

But imagine if we could all participate fairly in the rewards for reducing consumption at critical times.
Some of us have already reduced our carbon emissions dramatically.

My total emissions in the last 30 days in the worst weather were:

224 kilos co2 domestic (70kwhrs electricity and 1000 kwhrs of gas)
58 kilos co2 petrol (6 gallons)
66 kilos co2 embedded in my food
30 kilos co2 exhaled in breathing

Total 374 kilos

This is probably the heaviest emitting month of the year and from May to October, my consumption of gas is negligible really just heating a daily shower and boiling water for cooking and drinks.

The best I can work it out, excluding embedded co2 in purchased manufactured goods, my annual co2 emissions including food production are under 4 tonnes a year. I bought no manufactured goods outside a pair of chinos in the last 30 days. I did buy a new car last February, but I will likely keep it for the next 14 years like I did the last one, which lasted from 2010 to 2024.

I have not been on a plane in the last 15 years. Hilariously - vocal eco-shrew, India Rumbelow has a pile of long haul flights on her record which apparently are obvious to those looking at her social media accounts. This kind of hypocrisy is common among the Green - My prating brother in law who has hectored everyone around him at every opportunity flies with my sister every year to NewZealand, setting loose ten tonnes of co2 on every trip for each of them - but that's alright because they don't eat much meat, and they have an allotment.
 
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Ghost1951

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Could the UK actually get colder with global warming?


"In the UK, it could "become horribly, horribly cold … like living in northern Norway," Prof Thornalley warns."


Ha ha ha - very scientific information. Especially when the actual data suggest it might cause a half a degree centigrade cooling in London. This sort of scare mongering hysterical negativity is what brings science into disrepute. Some of these people have abandoned science - actual measurements and sensible discussion of results and they have become propagandists and polemicists. There is a big difference between the two ways of communicating.
 
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Woosh

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"In the UK, it could "become horribly, horribly cold … like living in northern Norway," Prof Thornalley warns."


Ha ha ha - very scientific information. Especially when the actual data suggest it might cause a half a degree centigrade cooling in London. This sort of scare mongering hysterical negativity is what brings science into disrepute. Some of these people have abandoned science - actual measurements and sensible discussion of results and they have become propagandists and polemicists. There is a big difference between the two ways of communicating.
If the Arctic conveyor belt (MOC) stops in the next 25 years then the uk could be up to 5 Celsius colder. The chance of that happening is tiny though.
 
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MikelBikel

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Poisonous pollution footprint like Asbestos, DDT, and Lead in petrol?
Now it'll be the HydroFluor rather than the Pollen count in the weather forecast!
And maybe pretty colour sunsets.. :cool:
 

Woosh

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Now it'll be the HydroFluor rather than the Pollen count in the weather forecast!
And maybe pretty colour sunsets.. :cool:
Did you find out how much fluorine is in your battery? Tiny amount. Would you ban toothpaste too?
 
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Woosh

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He just made a video saying not to trust what you see on the Internet, especially when it gets loads of likes. I think he was trying to tell you something.
I did watch that one yesterday.
Do you follow the current bird flu H5N1 in the USA? It can turn nasty.
 
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