Prices of the electricity we use to charge

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,191
30,598
If the ice were really going to melt, they wouldn't need 6 new icebreakers, would they?
Missing the point yet again. It is precisely because climate change is starting to open the N/W passage that there is now a race to claim territorial rights. The USA is far behind Russia in Ice Breakers, hence the panic now to catch up. Remember Russia has already claimed possession of the North Pole with an implanted flag on the sea floor there, so they are way ahead of all the other polar nations.
.
 
Last edited:

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
1,590
625
Missing the point yet again. It is precisely because climate change is starting to open the N/W passage that there is now a race to claim territorial rights. The USA is far behind Russia in Ice Breakers, hence the panic now to catch up. Remember Russia has already claimed possession of the North Pole with an implanted flag on the sea foor there, so they are way ahead of all the other polar nations.
.
The problem of 'missing the point' arises because some folks are completely closed off to ideas that don't suit them. They are not so much trying to learn something, but are set on massaging what they already think through finding any indicator which supports their established view and ignoring or dismissing every other.

So when I pointed out yesterday that NASA has reliable data on the temperature across the whole planet made every single day by a fleet of calibrated monitoring satellites, the answer fired back was 'Who controls NASA?' The mind set, seems rooted in ruling out ANY and EVERY source that does not support what the individuals already believe in. It is almost a 'religious' sort of outlook, like my old Dad, warning me when I was eighteen, that it was a 'sin' to doubt the beliefs of the faith he had brought me up in. If you rule out any source of information that points in ways you do not like, you are bound to remain in a bubble of error. There are people here who really believe there is a huge conspiracy to deceive them. There is a conspiracy - it is their own.

I know I am a pretty cantankerous and argumentative person, but I have always been delighted to find new information which changes the way I see the world. I spent quite a long time researching alternatives to human induced climate change, such as examining the period of the mini ice age (Maunder Minimum) and theories that solar activity might change our climate.

These ideas are at first look, quite reasonable, because many stars are unstable in their output. Ours though is VERY stable, which is probably why we are here in the first place on a planet which is literally teaming with life. So I had to abandon my objections, because they did not work. YES... there are plenty of non human causes of climate change in the history of the planet - absolutely massive ones, but they do not account for the current situation. Of course, as I have said before, I condemn the panic that some sources spread about a world burning up, or turning into a hellscape like Venus is. Those have no basis. Life will go on as it existed here in the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods when the mean global temperature was perhaps 25c and not 15c as now, but it may not be life like we see now. The only land animals then were huge reptiles.

If people don't want to learn and won't change their minds and openly examine evidence in a dispassionate way they are running up a blind alley. Had that been the case for our ancestors we would still be asking doctors to bleed us with leeches, applying poultices to the sick and having the kind of early death rates they saw in the Middle Ages. We would also never have accepted new technology and would be riding about on horseback or in carts and the majority would have a horizon about five miles from where they were born. We would still be burning witches - and oh... It is Halloween today! :)
 
  • Agree
  • :D
Reactions: POLLY and flecc

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,365
16,870
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Sorry, wrong, even the "sceance-tists" agree that most greenhouse effect is due to water vapour, whether invisible or visible clouds.
The amount varies because they cannot measure it, it is all Estimated from "Models".
"It's good to get a job in Meteorology, because one can be wrong more than half the time, and still not get fired!" :D
Climate models are built on flux dynamics, then verified by satellites. The problem is while we can measure the amount of irradiance from the sun or the amount of heat from fossil burning etc quite precisely, the current models are still not good enough when back testing against fossil records and recent weather to the point of being able to predict storms, flood in the next year to next 20 years.
The difficulty arises from not knowing exactly how much ice / super cooled water in the clouds. Ice reflects more sunlight than super cooled water. That problem will be solved in the next few years. In the meantime, you should know that hotter weather increases the proportion of super cooled water in clouds and that's a more floods and storms.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,365
16,870
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Last edited:

lenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 3, 2023
2,587
768
Last edited:
  • :D
Reactions: MikelBikel

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
11,387
3,234
One of the businesses owned by my eldest son does search engine optimisation. This involves writing content and setting up links. He used to employ a number of content writers but now uses ChatGpt to generate much of the written content they need to generate. They still proof read it with human intervention, but employ fewer people now because the chatbots can generate appropriate text very quickly.
To preserve their cash cow, I expect Google is making a massive effort to AI that AI content out.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
16,895
6,500
i just spent 60k fkn gunts cut the right to buy discount from 21 nov :oops:
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
6,812
3,150
Telford
So when I pointed out yesterday that NASA has reliable data on the temperature across the whole planet made every single day by a fleet of calibrated monitoring satellites, the answer fired back was 'Who controls NASA?' The mind set, seems rooted in ruling out ANY and EVERY source that does not support what the individuals already believe in. It is almost a 'religious' sort of outlook! :)
It's not religious to ask questions. Religion is believing without question. I think you need to look in the mirror and read what you wrote out loud to yourself.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,365
16,870
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Religion is believing without question.
humans have been pregrogrammed to believe in right and wrong. Would you question that?
 

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
1,590
625
humans have been pregrogrammed to believe in right and wrong. Would you question that?
I would question it. Definitely.

Humans are like open system computers. They will run whatever program society runs on them. At the end of WW2, at the Nuremberg Trials, the prosecution stated that soldiers KNEW right from wrong according to some objective (western) standard of ethics and that it was no defence to say you were following orders after carrying out instructions from superior officers. This is manifest rubbish, as anyone who seriously studies the way different human societies now and across history have acted towards other people.

EVERYTHING we hold dear comes from the upbringing we have in the family and in society at large. A baby comes into the world programmed by nature to watch its family and neighbours and to fit into society. A child born in Germany or Japan in 1930, or even 1920, was trained and brain washed into a set of values which made obedience to the prevailing creed an essential characteristic. They believed everything they were told and carried out actions we would regard as horrific, believing it was their duty and perfectly good.

Ethics are dictated by those who bring us up, not some internal program.

Look at historical societies and the way they behaved. We regard their ways, beliefs and actions as pretty horrific. They didn't. Do you think the ISIL beheaders think they are evil? They don't. They REALLY believe in what they do. Another thing is that it is VERY hard to undo this stuff. Once people get into what we see as crazy thinking, they are hard to move. This is why in spite of the obvious (more and more obvious) people are still devoted to Donald Trump and think he is an ideal man to be in charge of Government in the USA. Some of these believers don't even live there...
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
1,590
625
It's not religious to ask questions. Religion is believing without question. I think you need to look in the mirror and read what you wrote out loud to yourself.
The problem is not asking questions. Not at all. The problem is closing one's mind to alternate opinions and refusing to think seriously about alternatives. I made that remark a few days ago in the context of looking only for data which supports a preference for a particular answer.

In science we have something called the scientific method. This involves a range of principles one of which involves observing and collecting data, making hypotheses and devising experiments which will test them. But that isn't the end of it. Equally important is the principle that those investigating MUST question their own assumptions and seriously engage in the idea that what they think is going on, actually isn't really the cause of whatever the thing is that is being looked into. This is called the 'null hypothesis'. It keeps research open minded. It is a matter of, 'I think THIS is what is going on, but I need to test to see if what I am seeing is real'.

The opposite of that is very common. It consists of people deliberately ignoring alternative ideas, and discounting other sources of information. It works out in the form of people saying stuff like, 'You can't consider anything the mainstream media has to say. It is all lies'. The same people then turn to Facebook or 'God help us', Tiktok, where they seek out the opinions of 'no nothings' who left school at 15 and didn't listen when they were there. Their bull $h1t antenna is then set aside and they collect the 'evidence' that they want to see, deliberately ignoring all else.

Religious belief is about ignoring the obvious because you are too devoted to one way of thinking, so that you disregard and disrespect much better explanations. A good or better explanation is one that fits the facts.

60498
 
Last edited:

MikelBikel

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2017
909
329
Ireland
Interesting that a North passage from the orient to Europe could reduce shipping time to 10 days from 29..
IF nuclear ice-breakers are available. And Who has those? Enough said, 50% spasiba!
Screenshot_20241102-121204_YouTube.jpg

 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,365
16,870
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I question everything, including what reality is.
there is only one reality, we live it, share it. Why do you want to question it? Your reply reminds me of the invention of the number i, the imaginary number. Does physics need the number i to explain the world around us? For the majority of us, no.