Prices of the electricity we use to charge

Woosh

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Doctors are not badly paid. Not at all. My partner was a doctor for forty years.
Starting salary for doctors in the UK is between £32,398 and £37,303 a year.
They can earn 50% more in Australia.
Compare that with starting salary of an MP (£91,346) and the amount of training involved.
 

Ghost1951

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the amount of CO2 in the manufacturing of EVs and old cars are roughly about the same, ICE cars continue to burn fossil fuel throughout the hundreds of thousands of miles while EVs don't.
The carbon credits given to EV manufacturers account for the difference.
I'm all in favour of electric cars (at the right price), but your assertion that they don't consume fossil fuels is cloud cuckoo land and everyone here knows it.

Our grid last year was probably one of the cleanest in the world, but it still generated 27.2% of its power using fossil fuels the vast majority of that based on gas. So on current UK power generation mix, 27.2 of the miles driven used fossil fuels.

What is more, many other European nations have much higher use of fossil fuels. Germany for example generates 76% of its electric power using fossil fuels, so for an electric car in Germany, 76 out of every hundred miles are emitting co2.

EDIT:
The remark about Germany's power production may be wrong. It could be that the data I quoted referred to the total energy use rather than just electric power. I relied on Google's AI and it may have misinterpreted my query and quoted total energy use rather than just electrical energy.
 
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Woosh

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lenny

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"“The government needs to put forward a positive case for change.  Life costs a lot more when you’re disabled, and prices are still rising. Cutting support to those who need it most will lead to even more disabled people living in poverty.”

Shelley Hopkinson, head of policy and influencing at Turn2us, added that “our social security system, like the NHS, is one of the foundations of our society”, which has the “potential to support people and our economy to thrive”.

“But over a decade of cuts, punitive policies and stigmatising narratives have dragged people deeper into poverty instead of lifting them out,” she said. “Rather than small tweaks and further cuts, we urge the government to listen to people’s experiences and take immediate action that can lift millions out of poverty.”"

 

Ghost1951

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Budget Summary:

 

Ghost1951

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£40 Bn in tax rises mostly focused on business will result in business increasing the prices of goods and services. Business NEVER pays tax. The customers of business pay tax.

This will cause inflation.
 

Peter.Bridge

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£40 Bn in tax rises mostly focused on business will result in business increasing the prices of goods and services. Business NEVER pays tax. The customers of business pay tax.

This will cause inflation.
Tax incidence - https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/incidence-corporate-taxation-and-its-implications-tax-progressivity

The extra tax burden will be borne by a combination of shareholders, customers and employees, depending on the market elasticity https://oxfordtax.sbs.ox.ac.uk/the-elasticity-of-corporate-taxable-income-new-evidence-from-uk-tax-records#:~:text=Overall, our results suggest that,29% of the revenue collected.
 

Peter.Bridge

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I'm all in favour of electric cars (at the right price), but your assertion that they don't consume fossil fuels is cloud cuckoo land and everyone here knows it.

Our grid last year was probably one of the cleanest in the world, but it still generated 27.2% of its power using fossil fuels the vast majority of that based on gas. So on current UK power generation mix, 27.2 of the miles driven used fossil fuels.
But Electric Vehicles running on power station fossil fuel electricity are much more efficient than Internal Combustion Engine vehicles - (because power stations are much more thermally efficienct than ICE vehicles)


Replacing petrol with natural gas generated electricity reduces energy use by 48%
 
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Woosh

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£40 Bn in tax rises mostly focused on business will result in business increasing the prices of goods and services. Business NEVER pays tax. The customers of business pay tax.

This will cause inflation.
unlike VAT which is an indirect tax and passed on to customers, Business Tax or CT, is charged company's net profit. It is the most effective way to make the billionaires pay at least a minimum. The remainder is split between dividend and transfer to reserve. People like Richard Branson don't pay tax on dividend in the UK, his company pays CT though.
Far too often, conservatives chancellors try very hard to keep CT low, giving away billions every year to their rich donors.
 
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lenny

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soundwave

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they cant even work out when and where it is going to rain or not let alone say what it will be like in 20 years time that they said 20 years ago same as Iran is only 2 weeks from the bomb :eek:
 
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Ghost1951

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@PeterBridges

I don't have time to re-examine all the figures, but it is my belief that a modern, small engined petrol car betters 40% thermal efficiency. Small, modern diesel cars can do even better. My new car always does better than 60mpg on an hour long drive and often comes out at 68mpg.

Combined cycle gas turbine generators can manage as high as 60% thermal efficiency, but they lose 10% in power transmission losses, so at the power socket we are talking at max 50% thermal and transmission efficiency.

Then you need to consider the losses involved in charging and the motor losses in driving. In charging, you will lose about ten percent and more loss in the motor.

So, even as a fan of electrification, I am obliged to recognise that if an EV is powered by fossil fuel generated electricity, it could have a lower efficiency than the best modern petrol engines.

Where the EV scores over the modern petrol car is that in the UK, a third of our electric power was generated by wind and solar last year. You might also argue for air quality in an urban environment, but the new petrol engines emit tiny particulate or nox emissions.
 

Ghost1951

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Ghost1951

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unlike VAT which is an indirect tax and passed on to customers, Business Tax or CT, is charged company's net profit. It is the most effective way to make the billionaires pay at least a minimum. The remainder is split between dividend and transfer to reserve. People like Richard Branson don't pay tax on dividend in the UK, his company pays CT though.
Far too often, conservatives chancellors try very hard to keep CT low, giving away billions every year to their rich donors.
You really MUST know that businesses set their prices to ensure a suitable level of dividends. If CT is raised, the prices rise to ensure that the owners and shareholders still retain their income. This is an absolute FACT.

Raising the Employers NI contribution will have two effects. It will put a restraint on employing new people and it will raise prices. This is not rocket science. It is one of the reasons why a few years back we had so many French people working in London. My brother has lived full time in FRance since the 1970s. The tax on employing anyone is huge. He certainly was very concerned at the costs of employing new people.

The idea that business owners are rich fat cats sitting on bags of money is Labour cant. You ought to know that as a business owner yourself. All costs have to be passed on to customers or the business becomes non-viable.

EDIT:

By the way that trope about conservative governments handing money to rich donors is utter trash. They generally do things because tehy believe it will work better. As for rich donors, can you remind me how much money Starmer and his team have PERSONALLY taken from Lord Ali and others?

It's a bit rich to talk about donors with what has just been going on. Lord Ali bought himself a free pass to Downing Street and he did it with money that went onto the back of Starmer and his team in nice clothes specs and concert tickets for the PERSONAL enrichment of Starmer, Rayner and others. As for Rayner she DEFINITELY dodged capital gains tax on her house sale. Whatever weasel words she used to escape prosecution we all know that she sold an ex council house while she had been living in her husband's house. Boris was a disorderly, unprincipled wretch, but he was pilloried about using a loan from a donor to redecorate Downing Street. He paid that back and always intended to, but there was a hue and cry about that. Starmer has had about a hundred grand in perks from Ali.
 
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Peter.Bridge

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@PeterBridges

I don't have time to re-examine all the figures, but it is my belief that a modern, small engined petrol car betters 40% thermal efficiency. Small, modern diesel cars can do even better. My new car always does better than 60mpg on an hour long drive and often comes out at 68mpg.

Combined cycle gas turbine generators can manage as high as 60% thermal efficiency, but they lose 10% in power transmission losses, so at the power socket we are talking at max 50% thermal and transmission efficiency.

Then you need to consider the losses involved in charging and the motor losses in driving. In charging, you will lose about ten percent and more loss in the motor.

So, even as a fan of electrification, I am obliged to recognise that if an EV is powered by fossil fuel generated electricity, it could have a lower efficiency than the best modern petrol engines.

Where the EV scores over the modern petrol car is that in the UK, a third of our electric power was generated by wind and solar last year. You might also argue for air quality in an urban environment, but the new petrol engines emit tiny particulate or nox emissions.
You have to look at well to wheel efficiency not tank to wheel

Here they do that exact comparison for small new cars e.g Toyota Camry, VW golf etc

 
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Ghost1951

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