Price increases, has anyone come across any since Friday?

[anotherkiwi]

France (which is up against the ropes waiting for the final death blow as I have read in a certain UK press) makes bikes which Intersport sells for about 10 € more than the made in China ones.

I stand correected, France makes bike frames but so then does China, Japan makes the drive trains (Shimano), Taiwan the forks etc. etc. But anyhow a factory in France paying decent wages and offering social security to its workers can get bikes out the door for about the same price as a Chinese import. They save heaps on logistics and other middle man costs.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

As do Mifa in Germany, they sell bikes to Decathlon, they are cheap and cheerful, made in a highly automated factory and known by many in the bike press as a "bicycle shaped objects". I agree we could make ebikes here for about the same % increase as the bikes made in France. Solex recently tried to make ebikes in France and failed. Moustache on the other hand are superb French built ebikes but expensive. The big difference in France is labour is available and the French Government will practically fund the factory build and equip along with a huge bonus for every job created. We don't have that luxury here. There does not seem to be anyone looking for jobs in manufacturing and there is no help from Government.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I think Solex failed because they were ahead of the market and too expensive - they are very well built and have high spec components. There is a Solex at my friends but I haven't ridden it yet.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I'm no economics expert, but those two brands are pretty high-end aren't they? Would the same still apply at the budget end of the market where margins are pretty thin?

Yes.

 

[trex]

I'm no economics expert, but those two brands are pretty high-end aren't they? Would the same still apply at the budget end of the market where margins are pretty thin?

No.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Kiwi, we had the UK dealership, they were very ordinary technical with quite an ugly lump around the stem to emulate the old Solex Velos. Other than the "lump" the design was interesting but back up was non existent. I don't know what happened to them, we assume they ran out of money.

 

[trex]

Pound hit new low this morning. Currently $1.22
New round of price hike is inevitable.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Some of you don't know what you're talking about. You forget that both Brompton and Gocycle are made in the UK and are both very successful. We can expect to see a lower priced version of the Gocycle in the UK soon. They already make it for export. I'd be surprised if there's employees forced to work 80 hours a week in either factory, except the robots.

I've visited several Chinese factories. All the employees seemed to be very happy. The factories are not slave labour camps. They're no different to many UK factories. Some are a lot more modern and better equipped.

Please try and be sensible instead of trying to force your political prejudices on us.

You're saying "Made in the UK" when you mean assembled in the UK. Its the same with KTM so I do know what I'm talking about. KTM are badged and approved to be "Made in Austria" which is true the bike is made in Austria. But its "made" by non Austrian staff, using components from all over the world mainly paid for in $ and swiss frank. So the exchange rate and tarriffs plays a massive part in the end price. So even looking at Brompton (made in London) do you think they make the chainsets, the mudguards, the lights, the saddle, the handle bars, the raw materials for the frame etc etc. The answer is no. They are imported, along with I suspect a decent % of their workforce.

Our island is not big enough to sustain factories making everything we need, we've moved on from that thank god! We're a global economy / industry and that has lots of benefits including quality and price because of it.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

No. I mean "made in UK".

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

No. I mean "made in UK".

ok, well you're simply incorrect then. Brompton / GoCycle bikes are not made in the UK, they are just assembled here, from parts and raw material sourced from all over the world.

Also both those brands are at the top end of the price / market, so not ideal as a solution to the problems that could be on the way, for the vast majority of consumers in many many market places.

So making them in the UK does not mean the prices will not be impacted by the deflation in the value of the £ and €.

in addition they export a lot to the EU, so if we leave the single market they could find they revenue stream dries up and in addition we might have different standards. So then do they make bikes to the EU standard, or the UK one?

 

[trex]

No. I mean "made in UK".

let's debate this proposition seriously. I am all for manufacturing here in principle.
what can you make in the UK beside welding frames from imported tubes?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

ok, well you're simply incorrect then. Brompton / GoCycle bikes are not made in the UK, they are just assembled here, from parts and raw material sourced from all over the world.

Brompton make the frame, subframe, forks, handlebars, stem, crank, and they lace the wheels in their UK factory. Some other parts are sourced in the UK. To me, and most people, that would mean made in the UK.

The last I heard from Gocycle was that they were using robots to glue their frames together at their factory in Ely.

 

[trex]

Brompton make 46,000 bikes annually. It's sold worldwide but a very niche market and they are stuck with one basic design. Their effort in making an electric Brompton has not succeeded. The UK may buy 20,000 European ebikes but that's spead over 500+ models. The volume just isn't there for any serious manufacturing. GoCycle only make a very small number of e-bikes.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

A niche market of 46,000. How many Woosh bikes do you sell annually? Is there any other bike brand in the world that sells that many?

Don't forget, we're talking about the future, when the pound and Euro are at parity and maybe $1.1 to the pound, not the past. Gocycle are gradually ramping up. They have new cheaper models coming, which will make them a much more mainstream choice.

I was at the ebike shop yesterday to book my car in for MOT. A middle aged couple came in to buy a bike for her. She tried all the different bikes and then decided on the Gocycle. Why? Because it was light and easy to handle, and it has automatic (and tiptronic) gears. It's like the electric bike equivalent of one of those twist and go motor scooters. You don't need to know anything - just pedal and steer. It's a very underrated electric bike. I think that the cheaper one will sell very well when it comes.

 

[trex]

Brompton took 37 years (since 1979) to get to where they are. They now employ 115 people and turnover about £12 M. 60 fewer and less than half the turnover of the shop next door to Woosh in Southend (PMT Music) which was started in 1999. That's the difference if you want to grow your business in manufacturing or importing from China.

 

[derf]

Hi Derf, I would like to say that every Chinese factory I have ever visited only employs adults. The factories we deal with employ adult engineers at a higher wage than we would have to pay in Eastern Europe. It's now more expensive to manufacture in China than it is in many areas of Europe. The bikes are normally better made in China, we know this to our cost.

I don't know about all areas of manufacturing but the cycle industry I do know.

All the best, David

my point was really about production cost, but I gather some might disagree
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/global-bike-manufacturers-guilty-of-using-child-labour-claims-gr/03279

Brompton took 37 years (since 1979) to get to where they are. They now employ 115 people and turnover about £12 M. 60 fewer and less than half the turnover of the shop next door to Woosh in Southend (PMT Music) which was started in 1999. That's the difference if you want to grow your business in manufacturing or importing from China.

i agree, but it's sobering stuff, thanks for giving that menopausal sense of underachievement a slightly more painful edge

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Is there any other bike brand in the world that sells that many?

That is pretty small fry for a bicycle brand.

KTM is not a big bicycle brand and we'd build that many bikes in just over 30 days.

 

[anotherkiwi]

It is possible to "assemble" or "make" bikes that can compete on cost at entry level in the EU and with the new factories in Portugal and in the eastern countries will become more and more so. The cost of logistics and especially time to market mean a supply chain measured in days and not weeks or months, direct from factory to POS. No customs or tax formalities other than national VAT... There is quite a list of advantages.

And in France workers with heaps of experience who fought for and maintained their jobs, these people have been making bikes for at least two generations if not three. The Machecoul factory makes the Intersport brand bikes but also sub-contracts for a number of other brands. Including a trendy beach cruiser brand that is sold in S. Sebastian at prices so low (Decathlon low) that I thought about using one as a host for a kit.

 

[trex]

I had an idea of a 'Dell' system to make and sell e-bikes. Customers would assemble their e-bike on the web page, frame, wheelset, crankset, fork, brakes, handlebars, grips, accessories and conversion kit and place their orders on the website. However, I reckon such scheme would meet a lot of hostility from the LBSes.

 

[Kudoscycles]

One of my suppliers makes 2 million bikes per annum into the USA and they are not the strongest brand.. they make a bike per minute,running a 20 hour shift,250 days per year off multi production lines,over 30 containers a day.
Its mind boggling to watch,the packing area is so slick.
KudosDave