Price increases, has anyone come across any since Friday?

[anotherkiwi]

While we're being pedantic you cannot evolve an Micro Enterprise into anything. You can shut it down and open another regime but that's all.

Of course you can! You create a new structure and transfer the activity and equipment to it as capital, this has many advantages (translated from the AFE):

The second option is for the entrepreneur to sell his business to a company that he creates simultaneously. In this case, the shareholding of the new company is freely determined. The businessman can more easily take the majority of the shares in its capital if desired.
This has two advantages:
- The newly created company borrows to buy the franchise and deduces the interest on this loan from taxable income;
- The entrepreneur perceives immediately the proceeds from the sale of his business.
The assessment of the business can be made by the transferer himself.

 

[anotherkiwi]

AFAIK, the ME scheme is only to help you simplifying your paperwork, not to reduce your contributions.

It does both, take for example assembling and selling pedelecs ...

Social security (micro regime) and income tax on profit come to 25%. The RSI (traditional social security) is 43.55%... Which is why many artisans are up in arms about this regime.

You are also outside the VAT system which is also misunderstood by the artisans because you buy your goods full price and sell net (VAT included) whereas the artisan buys without VAT and adds VAT to his sale price.

 

[The Cornishman]

Of course you can! You create a new structure and transfer the activity and equipment to it as capital, this has many advantages (translated from the AFE):

The second option is for the entrepreneur to sell his business to a company that he creates simultaneously. In this case, the shareholding of the new company is freely determined. The businessman can more easily take the majority of the shares in its capital if desired.
This has two advantages:
- The newly created company borrows to buy the franchise and deduces the interest on this loan from taxable income;
- The entrepreneur perceives immediately the proceeds from the sale of his business.
The assessment of the business can be made by the transferer himself.

Shares in an AE? You either haven't a clue or are having a laugh!

 

[The Cornishman]

It does both, take for example assembling and selling pedelecs ...

Social security (micro regime) and income tax on profit come to 25%. The RSI (traditional social security) is 43.55%... Which is why many artisans are up in arms about this regime.

You are also outside the VAT system which is also misunderstood by the artisans because you buy your goods full price and sell net (VAT included) whereas the artisan buys without VAT and adds VAT to his sale price.

Would anyone really assemble and sell pedelecs as a ME? With a turnover limit of €32,000 you wouldn't be able to earn very much. That's a limit on the money handled not sales or profit. Buy the components for €800, assemble them and sell for €1200. That's €2000 of your €32000 gone already. Fifteen more bikes to go if you don't do anything else in between.

 

[trex]

I think that the ceiling for ME is 82,000 Euros. Your taxable income is estimated at 29% of turnover.
My guess a few will cheat on their turnover. Nobody is going to check their receipt book. It's a neat way to start a family business in France.

 

[The Cornishman]

I think that the ceiling for ME is 82,000 Euros. Your taxable income is estimated at 29% of turnover.
My guess a few will cheat on their turnover. Nobody is going to check their receipt book.

The higher figure is for sales only. My example was for 'manufacturing and sales' hence the lower figure. ME is not the best regime for most people but is the simplest to fall into. Manufacturing an ebike in France would require it conforming to NF plus various EU specifications, all employees having suitable and acceptable qualifications plus a high level of insurance. It is, of course, possible but not the easy guilt edged proposition suggested by the original comment about France.
People talk about sub £1000 ebikes being desirable. France has plenty, Decathalon's whole range would apply.

 

[shemozzle999]

Hi Shemozzle,

Not to the most of the current members, there is inly one that I know of that does not meet the criteria already.

You may be interested to know that BAGB are now working in an electric bike seal of approval or "kite mark". The consensus at the meeting was ebike law in the UK is still very messy and confusing, although the new EN15194 due to be published later this year goes some way to addressing a few of the certification issues. A BAGB "Kite Mark" would show everything was in place. "Kite Marked" electric bikes will have been submitted to the tech group of the BAGB for inspection along with all necessary certification on bikes, batteries and chargers. They will check that the certification applied to the bike being sold in the UK. A common practice is to use generic, normally out of date certification that does not apply the actual bike being sold. There will be a fee to cover costs but we don't expect that to be much more than 2 or £300 per model.

All the best, David

Hi David,

Thanks for the details, will it be independently policed?

 

[trex]

The higher figure is for sales only. My example was for 'manufacturing and sales' hence the lower figure. ME is not the best regime for most people but is the simplest to fall into. Manufacturing an ebike in France would require it conforming to NF plus various EU specifications, all employees having suitable and acceptable qualifications plus a high level of insurance. It is, of course, possible but not the easy guilt edged proposition suggested by the original comment about France.
People talk about sub £1000 ebikes being desirable. France has plenty, Decathalon's whole range would apply.

I imagine one would buy a kit (about 750 Euros) and fit it, customers pay 1,000 Euros. Husband and wife can team up for a combined turnover of up to 164,000 Euros. Gross income: 41,000 Euros. Total ursaaf + tax about 11,000 Euros leaving net family income about 30,000?

 

[The Cornishman]

I imagine one would buy a kit (about 750 Euros) and fit it, customers pay 1,000 Euros. Husband and wife can team up for a combined turnover of up to 164,000 Euros. Gross income: 41,000 Euros. Total ursaaf + tax about 11,000 Euros leaving net family income about 30,000?

More fiction. Under ME/AE people cannot team up and in your example you would be restricted to a turnover of @€32,000 each. You would not be selling as you would be fitting. If you really wanted to set up a company to do this there are regimes to cover it, ME is no good.

 

[trex]

The ME status is meant to be individual, one per person. For example, husband and wife are both hairdressers, their turnover ceiling is 64,000, not 32,000, I am certain of this. Many English teachers work in this status. For husband and wife team, one of them can of course be treated as salarie, but that's inefficient. The better regime would be conjoint collaborateur for a small turnover. Regarding e-bike conversions, the main activity is achat/ventes, AFAIK, should not be treated as ME RSI.

 

[The Cornishman]

The ME status is meant to be individual, one per person. For example, husband and wife are both hairdressers, their turnover ceiling is 64,000, not 32,000, I am certain of this. Many English teachers work in this status. For husband and wife team, one of them can of course be treated as salarie, but that's inefficient. The better regime would be conjoint collaborateur for a small turnover. Regarding e-bike conversions, the main activity is achat/ventes, AFAIK, should not be treated as ME RSI.

Please reread my post I said €32,000 each. That equals €64,000. A business that relies on production cannot be classed as buying/selling and don't forget that the figure is for turnover not sales so your €32,000 (each) would be €1,750 per bike. This would allow you to 'make' and sell 18 bikes each giving a profit of €4,500 per year per person. It just isn't going to happen.
The whole point of this was to highlight that French manufacturers are not given a magical financial advantage over their British competitors.

 

[trex]

CM, I think you misunderstood. this is the French text (official):

Si l'activité est mixte (vente de marchandises et prestation de services par exemple) :
- le CA global annuel ne doit pas excéder 82 200 € (ou 90 300 € si le CA de l'année précédente est inférieur à 82 200 €)
- et, à l'intérieur de ce CA global, la partie afférente aux activités de services ne doit pas dépasser 32 900 € (ou 34 900 € si le CA de l'année précédente est inférieur à 32 900 €).
(Si les 2 activités relèvent du même seuil, le CA global ne devra pas dépasser 82 200 € ou 32 900 €).

 

[anotherkiwi]

Leave it trex, he has to be right, that is his thing. Isn't that a new trend in the UK, people being right when all logic proves them wrong? I don't think his understanding of legal French texts is very good in any case.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi David,

Thanks for the details, will it be independently policed?

It will be policed by the BAGB, they are independent and have a superb reputation. If anyone didn't agree with their findings, they would be very open to discuss.

All the best, David