Police say electric bikes illegal in Northern Ireland

[flecc]

If there is no law on pedelecs in NI then surely EU law prevails? NI is part of the EU is it not?

Not on usage law. The EU dictates what constitutes a pedelec via the two and three wheeled type approval regulation 168/2013, giving it exemption (h) from being treated as a motor vehicle by manufacturers and suppliers.

However a national government decides how it's used. It's the same with all vehicles, examples: 16 year olds and others can drive low powered 45 kph limited cars in France without even having a test or driving licence. Most countries don't have a lower age limit for riding pedelecs and children do ride them in The Netherlands.

The draconian pedelec situation in N.I. is just the other extreme of what nations can do regarding usage.
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[Deleted member 4366]

Just a reminder about throttles. People are still spreading a false impression of the rules. Under EN15194, throttles are allowed. There are two provisos: Maximum speed without pedalling is 6 km/h, otherwise power must stop when the pedals stop turning.

 

[TedG]

Just a reminder about throttles. People are still spreading a false impression of the rules. Under EN15194, throttles are allowed. There are two provisos: Maximum speed without pedalling is 6 km/h, otherwise power must stop when the pedals stop turning.

I bought a Powabyke in 2002 and used it for six years. One revolution on the pedals enabled the twist grip throttle to become active and it would have powered me from that point without the pedals ever turning. I just sat there on many occasions with my feet on the stationary pedals and the throttle did all the work from 0 - 15mph.
Was this prior to any legislation or was I just lucky to get away with it?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Was this prior to any legislation or was I just lucky to get away with it?

Yes, that's not allowed on a new bike because power must stop if your pedals stop turning and you're above 6km/h. It's not illegal to use that bike still in England, Wales and Scotland because it has grandfather rights.

 

[flecc]

I bought a Powabyke in 2002 and used it for six years. One revolution on the pedals enabled the twist grip throttle to become active and it would have powered me from that point without the pedals ever turning. I just sat there on many occasions with my feet on the stationary pedals and the throttle did all the work from 0 - 15mph.
Was this prior to any legislation or was I just lucky to get away with it?

That was the equivalent of our UK EAPC law up until April 2015, since that didn't specify how power should be controlled, which left any method open. Your bike was also rated as 200 watts, since that was the old EAPC limit. Powabyke are of course a UK company.

Of course that wasn't legal in N.I. so yes, you just got away with it.

N.B. Crossed with post from d8veh.
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[LeighPing]

my "investigations" with friends from the old RUC days they assure me that the current PSNI will be instructed to be more vigilant when they see pedal cycles, just in case one might be a Pedelec.

Don't you think that you're being overly paranoid? I sincerely doubt that they'll be setting up any cycle path road blocks and proactively trying to catch someone out on a pedelec. With your earphones in, riding through the residential area alleyways, you wouldn't even hear them calling out. You'd have to be involved in a serious accident for them to even start looking at your bike. Do you think that the peelers are going to alight their vehicles and try to chase you on foot? Or maybe set the police dogs on you? Oh come on. Really?

Just in case though, show them this Sir Chris Hoy quote and present them with this card and you'll be fine I reckon.

“My views have changed on e-bikes… initially I simply couldn’t see the point of e-bikes. I thought if you’re wanting to cycle and get exercise, just use a bike – and if you want to get around with a motor then buy a moped or a motorcycle.

“But having actually ridden one, my opinions have changed massively. I think they’re great for people to commute on over distances that might not be able to manage without the electric motor. I think they allow people to go out and enjoy riding their bike with people who might be stronger and faster, as they can keep up with ease. In short, they’re a really nice combination of using your own human power, your own effort and having a little bit of assistance too. I think once you’ve ridden an e-bike, you completely ‘get it’”.

This law's obviously a joke and they don't seem to be in any rush to change it. Perhaps it should be treated as such. The other option would be to sell your ebikes.. But who'd buy them now?

 

[the_killjoy]

But, look what happened with the chap who killed the pedestrian ~ have an accident and they may give the bike a serious going over, even if it is not your fault.

 

[LeighPing]

But, look what happened with the chap who killed the pedestrian ~ have an accident and they may give the bike a serious going over, even if it is not your fault.

Assuming that you have both brakes working, technical illegality, by virtue of your province, and not being roadworthy are not the same things.

 

[TedG]

That was the equivalent of our UK EAPC law up until April 2015, since that didn't specify how power should be controlled, which left any method open. Your bike was also rated as 200 watts, since that was the old EAPC limit. Powabyke are of course a UK company.

Of course that wasn't legal in N.I. so yes, you just got away with it.

N.B. Crossed with post from d8veh.
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Sorry should have mentioned that we were living in England at that time.

 

[flecc]

Assuming that you have both brakes working, technically illegality, by virtue of your province, and not being roadworthy are not the same things.

While true, a pedelec is treated as a motorcycle currently in N.I., so if using one in UK fashion as a pedelec, the sum of possible charges in the event of an accident where the pedelec hit a person could have serious consequences.

The rider would be guilty of using an unregistered and uninsured motor vehicle, possibly without an appropriate driving licence. If a death or very serious injury had been the outcome, a prison sentence would be very likely.

Attempting to lecture the court on what a pedelec is and how they are treated elswhere would cut no ice, a court is only concerned with the charged offence and the law.
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[TedG]

While true, a pedelec is treated as a motorcycle currently in N.I., so if using one in UK fashion as a pedelec, the sum of possible charges in the event of an accident where the pedelec hit a person could have serious consequences.

The rider would be guilty of using an unregistered and uninsured motor vehicle, possibly without an appropriate driving licence. If a death or very serious injury had been the outcome, a prison sentence would be very likely.

Attempting to lecture the court on what a pedelec is and how they are treated elswhere would cut no ice, a court is only concerned with the charged offence and the law.
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Fully agree, hence my concern if that is paranoid then perhaps I am.

 

[flecc]

Fully agree, hence my concern if that is paranoid then perhaps I am.

No-one should ever be criticised for obeying the law, since it's just a wise and responsible course.
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[LeighPing]

No-one should ever be criticised for obeying the law, since it's just a wise and responsible course.
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Is that an unqualified opinion?

 

[flecc]

Is that an unqualified opinion?

Yes and no is the right answer! On the one hand I break laws, usually for expedience, but often to be helpful, but I would never criticise another for keeping to them.
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[LeighPing]

Fully agree, hence my concern if that is paranoid then perhaps I am.

Unfortunately, it's not paranoia when it's for real. I really feel for the ridiculous catch 22 situation that you're stuck in.

You can't comply with the law and you're not likely to be a able to sell your bikes either.

You could come up with a cunning plan and make a regular bike look like an ebike, with cardboard electronics etc. Then go test your fears with the peelers. I reckon they're unfounded. In that they'd be actively seeking to prosecute just for riding a pedelec.

 

[mike killay]

Idle thought.
Just what is a pedelec?
Remove the battery and what do you have?

 

[TedG]

Idle thought.
Just what is a pedelec?
Remove the battery and what do you have?

A (heavy) pedal cycle, but in my case the inability to change gears as they are controlled by the battery.
Again in my case I am also unable to pedal a conventional bicycle due to health issues, hence the reason for buying an e-bike.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Not on usage law. The EU dictates what constitutes a pedelec via the two and three wheeled type approval regulation 168/2013, giving it exemption (h) from being treated as a motor vehicle by manufacturers and suppliers.

However a national government decides how it's used. It's the same with all vehicles, examples: 16 year olds and others can drive low powered 45 kph limited cars in France without even having a test or driving licence. Most countries don't have a lower age limit for riding pedelecs and children do ride them in The Netherlands.

The draconian pedelec situation in N.I. is just the other extreme of what nations can do regarding usage.
.

Slight correction about France:

That used to be the case but now they must pass a AM/BSR test which is 7 hours of road security training. The AM drivers licence is valid 15 years and required to ride/drive outside France.

 

[flecc]

Slight correction about France:

That used to be the case but now they must pass a AM/BSR test which is 7 hours of road security training. The AM drivers licence is valid 15 years and required to ride/drive outside France.

I bet that's upset a few!

We have the AM driving licence group too, but those cars can't be driven here without complying to all our car law, and certainly not by youngsters.
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[TedG]

For those of you guys who are still interested in this saga may I include a reply from the PSNI received this morning.

"Having given due cognisance to the media interest surrounding the use of electric bicycles in Northern Ireland, Roads Policing have recently issued the following by way of advice and guidance to all officers and staff.

Great Britain made Electrically Assisted Cycle Regulations in 1983. These regulations served to define and regularise the construction of electric cycles and placed them outside the definition of a motor vehicle thereby treating them much as regular cycles but with restrictions upon the power output and top speed.

Northern Ireland made provision in the Road Traffic (N.I.) Order 1995 for similar regulations which were not replicated at that time. This means that electric bicycles are still regarded as a motor cycle and consequently to be registered with the DVLA, the rider must undertake CBT, wear protective headgear and insure the vehicle.

We understand that it is a concern for people who simply want to comply with the law and enjoy their electric cycle in the same way that those in Great Britain are able to do. While of course any individual police officer will always have discretion to deal with matters as they deem appropriate and according to the individual circumstances that prevail, it is not for the Chief Constable to issue directions that the law, as it applies with regard to electric cycle users, should be disregarded.

I trust that this be of assistance to you at this time."