Police say electric bikes illegal in Northern Ireland

[TedG]

https://www.change.org/p/police-service-of-northern-ireland-don-t-prosecute-anyone-for-riding-an-electric-bike

This petition seems to have been started by Green Party leader Stephen Agnew.
Wouldn`t do any harm to sign it.

Every little helps!

Already done. Had a reply from them as well which I noted in a previous post.

 

[LeighPing]

Signed.

 

[flecc]

When we lived in England I had a Powabyke which had pedals and throttle.
It could be ridden all day on throttle power to a maximum of 15mph. There was no need to pedal. - - - - If it was illegal I was never told nor was I ever stopped and questioned in the three years I had it.

It was legal by omission, since our 1983 EAPC regulations didn't specify any means of control, and it conformed to the 200 watt specification limit of that law.

To align with type approval law and the EU regulations, in April 2015 the pedelec method of control was specified as the only one permitted for new machines, but with the power limit increased to 250 watts to legalise the many 250 watt machines already in use.

Any otherwise legal e-bike produced before 1st January 2016 is permanently permitted a fully acting throttle in the UK.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Throttles are on sale on every bike kit sales site in the EU even in the very law abiding Germany. But as flecc has said there are many more factory built bikes than kit bikes on the road here. I have seen exactly one e-bike (not a pedelec) with a throttle in the last couple of years - a cheap Chinese import with a 1000 W motor.

Same rules as in NI: number plate, helmet, drivers test, insurance... If you were stopped by the police here because you weren't pedaling a pedelec (and they actually noticed) they would chuck the book at you for not having all that on your moped.

If I had a disability preventing me from pedaling a bike I would probably have an electric moped instead. There are a few of these around and they are quite nice http://www.avem.fr/scooter-electrique-matra-e-mo-xp-93.html

Just needs a bigger battery to be more useful and there is no law preventing you from increasing range by adding more battery!

 

[Danidl]

Throttles are on sale on every bike kit sales site in the EU even in the very law abiding Germany. But as flecc has said there are many more factory built bikes than kit bikes on the road here. I have seen exactly one e-bike (not a pedelec) with a throttle in the last couple of years - a cheap Chinese import with a 1000 W motor.

Same rules as in NI: number plate, helmet, drivers test, insurance... If you were stopped by the police here because you weren't pedaling a pedelec (and they actually noticed) they would chuck the book at you for not having all that on your moped.

If I had a disability preventing me from pedaling a bike I would probably have an electric moped instead. There are a few of these around and they are quite nice http://www.avem.fr/scooter-electrique-matra-e-mo-xp-93.html

Just needs a bigger battery to be more useful and there is no law preventing you from increasing range by adding more battery!

.. looks a nice product. I would be pleased to see them more in use in France, where the noise of the little 50cc bikes ridden by 16 year olds is intensely irritating.

Incidentally that bike can be ridden in France without any additional licence test by those born pre 1988 , but it does need to be insured. Helmet and gauntlets are mandatory
The market for that type of bike is pottering to the shops, travelling the 15 km to the secondary school, and getting to the first job.

 

[crotchrocket]

This weeks MCN

 

[Apachee]

Hi,
Signed the petition and donated.

 

[anotherkiwi]

From a speech by the lovely PM:

“Leaving the European Union will mean that our laws will be made in Westminster, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast. And those laws will be interpreted by judges not in Luxembourg but in courts across this country.”

A little bit of patience I'm sure e-bikes are in her top ten priority list of laws to be passed...

Seriously get a big group of pedelec riders together, get out and ride up and down in front of your parliament buildings, invite the local TV and radio. Make some noise! Jeez I spent years watching you lot make a hell of a lot of noise on the TV news as a kid for far less important things than having a good time in the summer sun

 

[TedG]

From a speech by the lovely PM:

“Leaving the European Union will mean that our laws will be made in Westminster, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast. And those laws will be interpreted by judges not in Luxembourg but in courts across this country.”

A little bit of patience I'm sure e-bikes are in her top ten priority list of laws to be passed...

Seriously get a big group of pedelec riders together, get out and ride up and down in front of your parliament buildings, invite the local TV and radio. Make some noise! Jeez I spent years watching you lot make a hell of a lot of noise on the TV news as a kid for far less important things than having a good time in the summer sun

I was never involved in the noise you are referring to (too busy in the motor trade) but it was very loud and well organised by "powerful" people.
Not too convinced that there is the same level of power or determination in the usually peaceful cycling community and even then there are very few pedelecs here in comparison to the Lycra Guys who may not feel inclined to lend their support to a cause which doesn't involve them.
We would certainly be at any properly organised event but I feel if such an event was to take place because of the possible low level or participants it would turn out to be of even less importance than it currently is with the media having a good old laugh which would discredit us more than help us.
I still believe a "test case" involving Plod would be more effective in bringing everything to the attention of the many authorities involved in this fiasco if it was to be thrown out of court, perhaps then the media would become more involved in our favour.

 

[TedG]

I have just received a reply to my letter to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and for the information of all out there who are affected by the ludicrous legislations, the following is a gist of his reply.

I did try to enlighten him that the majority here using pedelecs are using them because they have no choice due either to age or health issues and as such perhaps shouldn’t be subject to discrimination but that is simply my opinion.

Thank you for your email of 9 August regarding legislation associated with electronic bicycles. The Secretary of State has asked me to respond on his behalf.

As to the present situation, it is perhaps important to be clear that the issues have arisen not because of action that the UK Government is proposing to take, but because of the lack of an Executive able to bring the relevant Northern Ireland laws into line with those elsewhere in the United Kingdom. While the regulations associated with e-bikes were changed in GB in 1995 to reduce the regulatory burden, the amendments were not extended to Northern Ireland at that time. As a devolved matter, whether those regulations should be extended is an issue for the devolved administration to take forward, should they wish to do so. So any changes here would be for local Ministers in a restored Executive to address upon their return.

I understand that this response may be disappointing, but please be assured that the Secretary of State is doing everything within his power to secure the return of power-sharing government as soon as possible. And he has encouraged all those affected by the absence of an Executive to ensure their voice is heard. Northern Ireland’s future is best served by local decision-making based on partnership and agreement, and it is now for the parties to seize the opportunity to get the devolved institutions up and running again to deliver that outcome.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That's just a typical politician's response about political matters that only affect themselves. It shows that he's completely out of touch with and unsympathetic to real people with real issues.

I don't take sides in politics. All politicians are the same. They're just selfish bar stewards, who are in it for whatever they can get for themselves regardless of which party they're in.

 

[TedG]

That's just a typical politician's response about political matters that only affect themselves. It shows that he's completely out of touch with and unsympathetic to real people with real issues.

I don't take sides in politics. All politicians are the same. They're just selfish bar stewards, who are in it for whatever they can get for themselves regardless of which party they're in.

Maybe I was expecting more in the way of positivity as James Brokenshire is the secretary of state for Northern Ireland as opposed to "just a politician" so I felt a letter to him might have a bit more impact with the extra power which he should have in that unique position.
Not to be apparently.
I miss being out on my bike.
The 2017 summer is nearly gone and personally I am coming to the end of my autumn..........

 

[tommie]

Ted, i think if you were out on that towpath alongside the Lagan nobody would give a fiddlers,

it`s certainly not stopping me, weather allowing that is.

 

[TedG]

Ted, i think if you were out on that towpath alongside the Lagan nobody would give a fiddlers,

it`s certainly not stopping me, weather allowing that is.

Well done mate but we would have to cross Lisburn City to get to the splendid tow path and even by back roads and streets there is always the chance of a Plod trying to be famous and book me as the first culprit. I really don't have the strength to cope with a court case and worse - harassment to appear on the Nolan show.

 

[Danidl]

From a speech by the lovely PM:

“Leaving the European Union will mean that our laws will be made in Westminster, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast. And those laws will be interpreted by judges not in Luxembourg but in courts across this country.”

A little bit of patience I'm sure e-bikes are in her top ten priority list of laws to be passed...

Seriously get a big group of pedelec riders together, get out and ride up and down in front of your parliament buildings, invite the local TV and radio. Make some noise! Jeez I spent years watching you lot make a hell of a lot of noise on the TV news as a kid for far less important things than having a good time in the summer sun

.. unfortunately you have entirely missed the point. The law enabling pedelecs needs to be passed by the NI parliment. They have had no parliment for is it 8 months now. The major two parties SF and DUP cannot agree the terms of engagement, following a rift about a financial scandal, in which the first minister was implicated, and would not stand aside while it was being investigated.
So any parade of noise or noiseless ebikes is pointless. And it's a very very long avenue to stormont . The person in charge on behalf of the Westminster government ... Called the secretary of state for NI , who might have executive power to permit them, claims it's a devolved matter and won't touch it.

 

[Danidl]

Maybe I was expecting more in the way of positivity as James Brokenshire is the secretary of state for Northern Ireland as opposed to "just a politician" so I felt a letter to him might have a bit more impact with the extra power which he should have in that unique position.
Not to be apparently.
I miss being out on my bike.
The 2017 summer is nearly gone and personally I am coming to the end of my autumn..........

Ted both you and Tommie and all the others so affected have my genuine sympathy, it's a ludicrous situation.
If Mr brokanshire, started using executive power to implement a wide range of actions and reforms maybe that might goad the two parties into action... Say implement gay marriage, removal of all language grants, put taxes on union jack s and tricolours .. remove all sorts of grants for cultural activities, . There is nothing like a common foe to get people working together!

 

[TedG]

Ted both you and Tommie and all the others so affected have my genuine sympathy, it's a ludicrous situation.
If Mr brokanshire, started using executive power to implement a wide range of actions and reforms maybe that might goad the two parties into action... Say implement gay marriage, removal of all language grants, put taxes on union jack s and tricolours .. remove all sorts of grants for cultural activities, . There is nothing like a common foe to get people working together!

Thanks Danidl, I assume you saw the reply I received from this person in power which to me seemed a rather negative response. You, like so many others not in any sort of power seem to have a much better grasp of this sad situation.
In cycling we all have a common interest which in the grand scheme of things is remarkably simple and would take a remarkably simple piece of action to put it right.
The irony is that there is no body or party or movement actually objecting to the use of pedelecs . A great many people haven't even heard of them and would accept them as bicycles without a second glance. In this troubled island there is bickering and moaning and protesting about just about everything so why a simple directive to the PSNI chief to exercise a little tolerance until the crucial box is tucked in the corridors of power concerning this simple overlooked and illogical law.
I despair at times.

 

[flecc]

The person in charge on behalf of the Westminster government ... Called the secretary of state for NI , who might have executive power to permit them, claims it's a devolved matter and won't touch it.

Transport is fully devolved to N.I. so neither James Brokenshire nor the UK government have the executive power to overrule. They have their own Road Traffic Acts which only the assembly can change, ministerial power not extending to that. An added dimension is that by treaties the EU has authority over national governments on transport matters.

It's precisely because it's devolved that N.I. doesn't have our EAPC regulations. With such measures they usually follow our moves, but there was no assembly sitting at crucial moments to keep up with our changes so their absence is due to later omissions.

To illustrate both the above, we added a 14 years lower age restriction for riding EAPCs to our 1988 RTA, but the N.I. identical addition was much later to their 1995 RTA.

So they have the strange situation of EAPCs recognised as such in riding age terms, but treated as motorcycles which can be ridden at 14.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

.. unfortunately you have entirely missed the point. The law enabling pedelecs needs to be passed by the NI parliment. They have had no parliment for is it 8 months now. The major two parties SF and DUP cannot agree the terms of engagement, following a rift about a financial scandal, in which the first minister was implicated, and would not stand aside while it was being investigated.
So any parade of noise or noiseless ebikes is pointless. And it's a very very long avenue to stormont . The person in charge on behalf of the Westminster government ... Called the secretary of state for NI , who might have executive power to permit them, claims it's a devolved matter and won't touch it.

Oh no, I perfectly get the point. I am being a silly sh*t stirrer, that is my role.

Belgium didn't have a government for over a year but they have pedelecs...

If there is no law on pedelecs in NI then surely EU law prevails? NI is part of the EU is it not? I know more stirring... As long as your bike doesn't have a throttle it isn't a motorbike, it is a bicycle with "electronic" (SIC - who elects these people to office...) assistance. That is not a motor vehicle under EU law.

Plod arrests you for using an illegal motorbike.
You "OK then it is a motorbike make it move, turn the throttle."
Plod "I can't find one!"
You "Because it is a bicycle, have a nice day"
Ride off into the sunset.

 

[TedG]

Oh no, I perfectly get the point. I am being a silly sh*t stirrer, that is my role.

Belgium didn't have a government for over a year but they have pedelecs...

If there is no law on pedelecs in NI then surely EU law prevails? NI is part of the EU is it not? I know more stirring... As long as your bike doesn't have a throttle it isn't a motorbike, it is a bicycle with "electronic" (SIC - who elects these people to office...) assistance. That is not a motor vehicle under EU law.

Plod arrests you for using an illegal motorbike.
You "OK then it is a motorbike make it move, turn the throttle."
Plod "I can't find one!"
You "Because it is a bicycle, have a nice day"
Ride off into the sunset.

I am sure someone will reply to this more accurately than me but from my "investigations" with friends from the old RUC days they assure me that the current PSNI will be instructed to be more vigilant when they see pedal cycles, just in case one might be a Pedelec.
Because of the need to update a law to bring parity with the rest of the UK these bikes are currently illegal in this part of the UK but it doesn’t mean the forces can turn a blind eye because of the stupidity of that law.
If the bikes have "additional" power, throttle or otherwise then they fall into that grey category which would subject the rider to a prosecution.

My cynical views would be that a Plod would either jump at the possibility of his 15 minutes of fame in the spotlight over his actions OR he would be reluctant to act on a law which MIGHT fail at whatever stage and render him foolish looking.
Either way the guinea pig on the Pedelec is not something I would want to be but I feel it will take a "test case" to resolve this and prevent it dragging on until the politicians agree on "more important issues" first.

I have already replied to two replies from "power" stating that, like many others in the same position, I am now feeling victimised because of inability to ride a conventional bicycle due to health issues.

Tommie appears to have decided to ride on regardless and I wish him well.

I am just too old and tired in mind and body to take on the establishment........yet again.

I would give you a tick for "interesting" Kiwi but there isn't one.