Police ebike checks.

[flecc]

I'm not struggling with anything yet.



I'm starting to struggle a bit with that answer.



And now I'm definitely struggling.

You just are not getting it are you? It's about the machine, if it is capable of breaking the rules under rider control, it is always illegal on the road since it is a motor vehicle subject to motor vehicle law. Whether the motor is switched on or not is immaterial, because the law is not about the riders actions, only the machine.

Your other puzzlement about bicycles having no speed limit is simply due to an omission in law. In the early days of the safety bicycle they were never ridden at above about 10 mph in sedate Edwardian fashion, so no speed limit necessary. But the new fangled cars and motorbikes soon did need one, so a law was passed for them.

It's not been thought necessary for bicycles since for most of their 130 odd years they mostly haven't been ridden very fast. The UK craze for a lot of cycling at 20 mph or more is both very recent since the 1980s and very local to us. The rest of the world is mostly much more sensible.
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[LeighPing]

Yep, road speed limits don't apply to push bikes and legal ebikes.

Thanks for acknowledging those points.

You just are not getting it are you? It's about the machine, if it is capable of breaking the rules under rider control, it is always illegal on the road since it is a motor vehicle subject to motor vehicle law. Whether the motor is switched on or not is immaterial, because the law is not about the riders actions, only the machine.

Your other puzzlement about bicycles having no speed limit is simply due to an omission in law. In the early days of the safety bicycle they were never ridden at above about 10 mph in sedate Edwardian fashion, so no speed limit necessary. But the new fangled cars and motorbikes soon did need one, so a law was passed for them.

It's not been thought necessary for bicycles since for most of their 130 odd years they mostly haven't been ridden very fast. The UK craze for a lot of cycling at 20 mph or more is both very recent since the 1980s and very local to us. The rest of the world is mostly much more sensible.
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I absolutely do get it. So to recap then, a legal ebike, with the motor turned off may be ridden at any speed possible and, therefore, due to that omission in law, plod would have no reason to;-

A) Pull you over for speeding.

B) Test ride your bicycle to check for illegalities.

Thanks for clearing that up gents.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

Thanks for acknowledging those points.

Good to see that you acknowledge that road speed limits don't apply to push bikes and legal ebikes, you seemed to be denying that in your post #77.

I absolutely do get it. So to recap then, a legal ebike, with the motor turned off may be ridden at any speed possible and, therefore, due to that omission in law, plod would have no reason to;-
B) Test ride your bicycle to check for illegalities.

You're still not quite with it, , if the police have reason to suspect that an ebike is illegal then they are entitled to examine it, irrespective of the speed it's being ridden at.
If you decline a request for a test ride then they are entitled to take the bike away for examination.

This has been spelled out to you many times before, let's hope you understand it this time.

 

[LeighPing]

You're still not quite with it,

Oh I'm well ahead of things. But it's nowt to do with me. I'm merely discussing the circumstances of the poll question.

if the police have reason to suspect that an ebike is illegal then they are entitled to examine it, irrespective of the speed it's being ridden at. If you decline a request for a test ride then they are entitled to take the bike away for examination.

That's the point. What says they're entitled to take it away? If no offence has been committed and there's no evidence to support illegality, then why would they take it away? If the bikes switched off, it's just another bicycle. What would their suspicions be based on? Bicycles are exempt from speeding.

Yep, road speed limits don't apply to push bikes and legal ebikes.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

What says they're entitled to take it away? If no offence has been committed and there's no evidence to support illegality, then why would they take it away?

Well, according to my ex police friend, they are entitled to take it away to test it.

What would their suspicions be based on?

We've covered this before for you, suspicions could be based on the size of the motor, the speed the bike was going vs the apparent input of the rider eg their age, weight and apparent effort, perhaps some inside knowledge.

The police don't need proof in order to be suspicious.

Maybe if you re-read this thread from the beginning you wouldn't need to repeat the same questions.

 

[Woosh]

perhaps some inside knowledge.

 

[flecc]

If the bikes switched off, it's just another bicycle.

No, no, no, no, no!

If it's equipped to be an e-bike, IT IS NOT JUST ANOTHER BIKE WHEN SWITCHED OFF.

It's an EAPC excused from motor vehicle law and only subject to bicycle law if conforming to the legal construction limits, WHETHER SWITCHED ON OR OFF.
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[LeighPing]

No, no, no, no, no!

If it's equipped to be an e-bike, IT IS NOT JUST ANOTHER BIKE WHEN SWITCHED OFF.

It's an EAPC excused from motor vehicle law and only subject to bicycle law if conforming to the legal construction limits, WHETHER SWITCHED ON OR OFF.
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So, if it's a legal EAPC, my 250w, 15.5 mph motor cut off, kit bike for example, being rode with the motor switched off, would bicycle law apply?

The police don't need proof in order to be suspicious.

 

[aardvark5]

Lads, this is hard work.

Let's try an analogy:
You have a car that is 100% legal, you have vehicle tax, insurance and it is MOT'd, you have nothing added to it that you shouldn't but if the Police have suspicions they can pull you over and look the vehicle over.
You could blank refuse but you would be an idiot.
Apply that same logic to an e-Bike.

 

[flecc]

So, if it's a legal EAPC, my 250w, 15.5 mph motor cut off, kit bike for example, being rode with the motor switched off, would bicycle law apply?

Bicycle law applies all the time to a legal pedelec, whether switched on or off.

But a pedelec has the additional pedelec riding law which is restriction of motor assistance to only up to 15.5 mph.

You need to forget anything about being switched on or off since there is no pedelec rider law whatsover. There is only pedelec law for the machine.

If the machine doesn't comply with pedelec law, it's a motorcycle and the rider then breaks motor vehicle law.
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[LeighPing]

As the poll indicates, many would not allow the police to test ride their legal ebikes to prove, or disprove, any suspicions that they may have. Especially if it's a scam to steal the bike. Our bikes may be rode at any speed whatsoever, without breaking the bicycle law regarding speeding. Which is non-existent.

suspicions could be based on the size of the motor, the speed the bike was going vs the apparent input of the rider eg their age, weight and apparent effort, perhaps some inside knowledge.

If you're fit, fat and old. You'd better slow it down.

 

[Amoto65]

I have to say the poll is pretty stupid in the first place as it asks " Would you let the police ride your ebike" and one of the options is " No it could be a scam to steal my expensive ebike" which makes no sense at all as the original question states "Police" and if it was a scam it would not be police, so logical answers should be Yes, No or Don't know.

 

[LeighPing]

I have to say the poll is pretty stupid in the first place as it asks " Would you let the police ride your ebike" and one of the options is " No it could be a scam to steal my expensive ebike" which makes no sense at all as the original question states "Police" and if it was a scam it would not be police, so logical answers should be Yes, No or Don't know.

You may well be right. Although, would a yes, no, don't know poll vote scenario really make much difference in that outcome? Who can say..

What is clearly evident is that quite a few don't want the police, fake or otherwise, riding their bikes to prove a point. Or even to seize their bikes for testing, if denied that road test. Others may feel differently about allowing them to do that. The decision to decline is a subjective choice. Having said that, the guy with the illegal ebike that got pulled, and whose bike the police took for a test ride, didn't come out of it any the worse, because he'd tweaked the settings down before they rode it.

So perhaps letting them ride your bike isn't such a bad idea after all. As long as they're the real deal. Hopefully it's a decision that we'll never have to make.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

Ah, I see now, you've been trolling on this thread to get people to open it and click on your stupid poll.

What a pointless waste of people's time.

Troll.

 

[Amoto65]

You may well be right. Although, would a yes, no, don't know poll vote scenario really make much difference in that outcome? Who can say..

Of course it would make a difference because you are suggesting that it could be a scam and their bike could be stolen, hence people would vote no because of that.

 

[LeighPing]

Of course it would make a difference because you are suggesting that it could be a scam and their bike could be stolen, hence people would vote no because of that.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Ah, I see now, you've been trolling on this thread to get people to open it and click on your stupid poll.

What a pointless waste of people's time.

Troll.

If you don't want to dance, don't go on the dance-floor.. Clearly you had nothing better to do and seem to have been a most active participant.

 

[soundwave]

i got no where on my bike to mount my water bottle

 

[Deleted member 25121]

If you don't want to dance, don't go on the dance-floor.. Clearly you had nothing better to do and seem to have been a most active participant.

I was trying to help, what's wrong with that?

But I've had my suspicions that I've been feeding a troll.

 

[LeighPing]

I've had my suspicions that I've been feeding a troll.

If you didn't feed yourself then you wouldn't be alive, and I don't care how suspicious you are. You're not riding my bike.

 

[aardvark5]

Our bikes may be rode at any speed whatsoever, without breaking the bicycle law regarding speeding. Which is non-existent.

Only if it's a non motorised bike or it's got a motor which cuts off at 15.5 mph.