Please help me troubleshoot motor or controller fail

[Jammyb]

watch out Jammyb, i have just received a new yose rear with battery at 23v. it will take up till the 17th to sort out Chinese new year! But the rest of the kit is fine. go direct it works out cheaper £161.

Oh dear 23v doesn't sound good, did you get that via the yosepower German stock? Is that what you mean by direct.
I got my battery from pswpower, they had stock in Germany so came in a matter of days without tax.
Hope they get that sorted for you promptly.

yosepower replied to my query to say I could buy a new cable direct from their German stock for 20 euros but I think they wont sell the wheel on its own just the complete kit for £186

 

[Nealh]

It looks like it is time to look else where for kits, either use Woosh for complete kits or buy everything from Topbikekit who also sell the very good Aikema hubs.

 

[scott gaza]

Yes it came from German stock with the replacement via the same. But have to wait till the 17th so they can send out return labels.

 

[Nealh]

Yes it came from German stock with the replacement via the same. But have to wait till the 17th so they can send out return labels.

Disadvantage of dealing with mainland China with EU bases, the wait time for reply, returning and then receiving items. The time delay can be anything up to 4 weeks or more with the toing and froing.

Woosh on the other hand send most parts out next day and I myself have experienced this, it as if the parts are in the post before you have even called them.

 

[scott gaza]

Thanks Nealh, Would you think it wise to try and charge the battery up to 30v+ so i can charge it normally or is it likely that the battery is way past its best? scrub that Nealh yose recon they can arrange return label tomorrow now! I Have to accept smaller battery tho. Cheers Gaza

 

[Jammyb]

Thanks Nealh, Would you think it wise to try and charge the battery up to 30v+ so i can charge it normally or is it likely that the battery is way past its best? scrub that Nealh yose recon they can arrange return label tomorrow now! I Have to accept smaller battery tho. Cheers Gaza

That's more like it. Hopefully they will get a new one to you quickly - why do have to accept a smaller one? Just stock
levels?

I've taken the plunge and bought the yosepower 28" 350w motor kit. Looks like it comes with different controller and display now rather than the KT kit the my first yose set came with. At least now I will have another throttle, pas, controller, 4in1 cable, and wheel/motor. Hopefully I can then find what's been causing the issues I've been having - either one component fault or multiple.
Once my bike is up and running again and I can diagnose where the failure was I'll either keep the rest of the parts as spare or sell them to recoup some cash.

Be interesting to know if the lishui controller has a 63v cap to allow 48v battery use - im guessing not.
Also I have a feeling these controllers don't allow throttle use without first activating pedal assist or adjusting LVC like the KT controllers.

 

[scott gaza]

There is only one halong battery pack in stock at there german warehouse. i ether take it or wait a long time. o i get £10 refund also. Sorry had a look inside controller there is nine mosfets but cant make out what size they are, never no you may live up to you're name sake

 

[Nealh]

Not Mosfets you need to look at but the main inrush capacitor which will have the voltage written on it, likely as it isn't a dual voltage one then it will prob be only 50v rated . Though you could you 12s if max charge was kept to <4.15v per cell group or 49.8v max.

 

[scott gaza]

Sorry cant tell the capacitor is well glued in with no useful writing visible on it. Just stating it was more powerful one due to the 9 fets.

 

[Jammyb]

Sorry cant tell the capacitor is well glued in with no useful writing visible on it. Just stating it was more powerful one due to the 9 fets.

Thanks for looking, i found a photo looking similar to your explanation on a german electric bike forum. It was also all covered in a waterproof grey coating and not possible to see writing on the cap. I wonder if there's any kind of resistance test you can do with a multimeter to determine the value. Obviously if I can't confirm I won't try it with my 48v battery and stick to the dual voltage KT Controller.
Should be a smoother controller than the original 36v integrated KT controller though - that was only a 6 Mosfet.

My Original KT controller that came with the yosepower kit looks identical to this one which is listed there as a 36/48 controller so I wonder if that would of worked with a 48v battery anyway. Again cant see the rating as its underneath the cap

 

[scott gaza]

Hi they would be 50v i imagine so would be running a bit too close to the edge. You would have a lishui display and controller spare and you could sell at a premium recoup some of the cost?

 

[Jammyb]

Hi they would be 50v i imagine so would be running a bit too close to the edge. You would have a lishui display and controller spare and you could sell at a premium recoup some of the cost?

Yes I suspect your right. Indeed that would be the plan to hopefully sell all unrequired kit. Depending on what's faulty with mine (if it is just the motor) I might have a lishui controller, display, 4in1 cable, pas and throttle to sell on.

 

[Nealh]

The Lishui afaik aren't dual voltage and are either for 36 or 48v, my normal ali box Lishui was only 36v capable and ran with 12s lipo with no issue restricted to 4.15v per cell.

 

[Jammyb]

All sorted...eventually!

New Yose rear wheel kit arrive friday. It was the 4in1 loom that was at fault even though i tested each individual cable end to end. Used it with my existing kit and everything worked fine. Switched back to old loom again just to be sure and had no speedo reading and slow response from pas, the system shut off after a few seconds of applying throttle.

I actually broke my existing throttle, whilst taking it apart to check it i managed to snap the hall sensor off the end of the wire. So out of the entire new kit all I needed was a new wiring loom and throttle. I decided to stick with my existing LCD3 and use one of the new external 48v Kt controllers I got from amazon along with my new 48v battery. Was really impressed, the motor was quieter and smoother with the the newer 9 mosfet controller compared to the original and road exactly as I wanted, had C5 parameter set to 5 to limit the torque which was perfect a big improvement all round over my previous setup.

Until the rear axle snapped!

Think this was my fault looking back i'm questioning whether i had done the wheel nuts up tight enough and I'd forgotten to fit the bolt into the torque arm to hold it to the frame . Luckily it went when i applied throttle a bit from standstill, I though the axle had just popped off the frame on one side till i pushed it home to inspect and found one side was held tight whilst the other side still turned, it has snapped inside the wheel. So after thinking I had spent a lot on spares I actually needed the new wheel as well!

All back together now with the new wheel in place and bolts done up much tighter, need a new torque are as the previous on got damaged and twisted on the old wheel.

I bought the cassette version this time rather than the freehub i had before as I still had my original wheel with 9 speed cassette and that had an 11T cog which i liked where as I could previously only find a freewheel with a 13T.
The new wheel also doesn't have 350W engraved on the side, instead the it just says '36EW-G27C H19090881'. There was just a 350w sticker that seems so of fallen off ;-)



So everything now working great, had to use the yose triangle bag to hide the controller until the new battery holder integrated one turns up from china ( topbikekit now saying they will ship after 01/03/2020 )

The only issue I had on a quick final test ride tonight was a strange slipping feeling sometimes when i tried to pedal with force, couldn't hear the chain jumping and it didn't change cog but for a min the pedals seem to turn without pulling the rear wheel round - almost felt as it the cassette slipped, strange as there was no clunk or grinding just a smooth quick movement of the pedals for a split second without resistance.

 

[scott gaza]

Good to hear that almost everything is a OK Jammyb. I would swamp the freewheel in WD 40 as it sounds like a slight striking of the pawl Good luck! Gaza

 

[Jammyb]

Good to hear that almost everything is a OK Jammyb. I would swamp the freewheel in WD 40 as it sounds like a slight striking of the pawl Good luck! Gaza

Thanks Scott, New wheel has a cassette rather than freewheel so hoping it's nothing wrong with the cassette 'holder'? (not sure what its called ) on the wheel itself. I'll have to have another go and look in daylight to try and determine what's happening. Al least I don't have any electric gremlins any more.

 

[PC2017]

Oh dear 23v doesn't sound good

Any update on the new kit?? - I got my 48v battery from PSW and a new 17a dual voltage controller from Aliex - I had a strange one sounds a bit like your initial problem, I had to go back to my YOSE fron 250w[(36v) running at 48v 13a(lcd reduced)] due to wheel rim cracking issues with my YOSE 350w rear... Anyway the 48v battery went on perfect and everything was going well until I got down to about 46v from standing, then I changed the P5 battery setting and everything went similar to yours, brake icon on- no brake problems, no speed reading, throttle working for a few seconds in and out, no PAS for a while and not even a speed reading with no motor, anyway I didn't think much of it due to the fact the controller and battery had been resting so no heat issues, switched the battery off for a min and all went back to normal, however I have yet to read this other thread(https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/replacing-or-repairing-controller.20168/) but the dual voltage controller seemed to think the battery was a 36v when it hit 42v, it was getting awfully low and not even think about LVCing, I stopped at 41v resting at 44v but I could have gone as low as 40v.

It could be a problem with the Dual voltage aspect of the controller!

 

[Jammyb]

Any update on the new kit?? - I got my 48v battery from PSW and a new 17a dual voltage controller from Aliex - I had a strange one sounds a bit like your initial problem, I had to go back to my YOSE fron 250w[(36v) running at 48v 13a(lcd reduced)] due to wheel rim cracking issues with my YOSE 350w rear... Anyway the 48v battery went on perfect and everything was going well until I got down to about 46v from standing, then I changed the P5 battery setting and everything went similar to yours, brake icon on- no brake problems, no speed reading, throttle working for a few seconds in and out, no PAS for a while and not even a speed reading with no motor, anyway I didn't think much of it due to the fact the controller and battery had been resting so no heat issues, switched the battery off for a min and all went back to normal, however I have yet to read this other thread(https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/replacing-or-repairing-controller.20168/) but the dual voltage controller seemed to think the battery was a 36v when it hit 42v, it was getting awfully low and not even think about LVCing, I stopped at 41v resting at 44v but I could have gone as low as 40v.

It could be a problem with the Dual voltage aspect of the controller!

Hi PC2017
That does sound very similar to how my kit startng acting up. Seemed to start just doing random things like that brake cut out not showing whilst active and speedo not always registering. Eventually I don't think any setting changes on the lcd settings made any difference to the controller - don't think communication was working between lcd and controller. I still don't understand fully why as I tested my 4in1 cable end to end but it was definitely that cable that was the cause of it all as changing just that when my new kit arrived resolved all the issues.

I've not had any issue with battery voltage detection though. Think the default lvc on the KT controllers for a 48v battery is dead on 40v. It says on the Aliexpress listing for my 48v 13s5p battery that the Discharge cutoff voltage: 36.4V. Maybe your setup is registering correctly and would have cut off at 40v? I haven't run my new kit that low yet - so far have always charged back to full once its reached about 45v resting.

Im now only using the new cable and 350w wheel (since previous axle snapped) from the new yosepower kit and part from the slightly noiser and rougher running (see other thread) I now have with the integrated controller its running great.

The second 350w kit from yosepower uses a difference motor, i noticed soon as i changed it the previous one ran to 36mph unloaded and the new one runs up to 30mph unloaded. Think the top speed actually riding would still be max of 25mph on either though without pedaling.

What's the unloaded speed of your 250w with the 48v battery ? do you prefer it to the 350w wheel, I guess it has a difference winding so a bit stronger acceleration ?

 

[PC2017]

unloaded speed of your 250w with the 48v battery ?

Like you mentioned I think you had gremlins! I am glad your new kit is working as excepted.

I'll check....21.3 PAS 5 full throttle amp draw set at 13.6a -
I have to remind myself to lift the front wheel up and not the rear lol - It's always best to try and eliminate the easy parts first, I always buy a few spare 1to4 cables and a few D12L PAS units every year just in case, I think my problem with the funny readings was a short in the PAS it was full of road crud, it has had a good year of use before it packed up yesterday... As for the LVC problem I will try another controller, I found one listed as sine wave, hopefully it'll be a better made controller.

- It feels like a 350w front now, I have improved hill climbing and head wind speed, better PAS 1-3 acceleration and cruising speed, no over heating issues as yet although it is still cold weather and I have not over pushed the new 48v battery yet. A part from this LVC issue, which I seem to cursed with, it's all good!

 

[Jammyb]

Like you mentioned I think you had gremlins! I am glad your new kit is working as excepted.

I'll check....21.3 PAS 5 full throttle amp draw set at 13.6a -
I have to remind myself to lift the front wheel up and not the rear lol - It's always best to try and eliminate the easy parts first, I always buy a few spare 1to4 cables and a few D12L PAS units every year just in case, I think my problem with the funny readings was a short in the PAS it was full of road crud, it has had a good year of use before it packed up yesterday... As for the LVC problem I will try another controller, I found one listed as sine wave, hopefully it'll be a better made controller.

- It feels like a 350w front now, I have improved hill climbing and head wind speed, better PAS 1-3 acceleration and cruising speed, no over heating issues as yet although it is still cold weather and I have not over pushed the new 48v battery yet. A part from this LVC issue, which I seem to cursed with, it's all good!

Cheers CP2017, I wondered in future if the 250w winding motor run at 48v would be a better experience, with a bit stronger pull at lower speed and if it would still allow good assist between 20-23mph. Be interesting to know how you get on with your new controller and when you switch over to the 48v batt. Crossing fingers it resolves your LVC issues!