Please help me troubleshoot motor or controller fail

[Jammyb]

Ok ill try and keep this short and to the point as I can.

Yose 350w rear hub kit. 1st things starting happening:
- speedo on the lcd and motor watts occasionally stayed at 0 whilst cycling everything else worked fine.
- all power would cut to the motor, lcd still on battery voltage fine. power on and off and all good for a mile more till that happened again.
- noticed the icon that appears on the lcd3 that indicating brake was being applied stop appearing even though brake cut off switch working and cutting motor as it should.

this carried on for a while then:
- power to motor seemed to be at max assist regardless of assist setting 1-5
- started having full power assist when lcd was set at 0
- eventually power became very low only noticeable up to 3-5mph.
- if i hold throttle open full the motor spins at 5mph ish and then slows a little more

things I've checked:
- check all connections
- check with a pin and a multimeter that the 4-1 cable has no breaks or shorts
- confirmed the same behaviour (low power) with just throttle connected or just pas sensor connected.
- had a look inside controller - can't see anything blown
- checked none of the three phase wires in controller are shorted to negative or positive cable

So decided it seems most likely the controller that has failed and its good excuse to upgrade to 48v battery and controller.
purchased new 48v battery and this controller .

I plugged in the controller and new battery to existing motor and kt-lcd3, controller came on and showed new 48v battery reading. great i though all should be good - tried the throttle ( bike in a stand ) wheel spun but still not full speed, tried via turning pedals - again not full speed, then tried the throttle again started to spin then shut off - lcd also went off like complete loss of power.

Since then with the new controller and battery attached i can turn the lcd on but can not get any power to the motor throttle or pedals! - has this new controller failed ?!

whilst It did work for a min on first connection i noticed the speedo was still reading 0 as was motor watts and the brake still didn't show the brake active icon on the lcd.

This led me to think perhaps the KT-LCD3 is faulty from rain water damage and is causing problems.

Purchased a new KT-LCD5. plugged this in with new controller and battery but still nothing - no power to the motor.

Decided to try original battery and controller again. Could now get same behaviour as before, motor only spinning slowly from throttle/pas, no speedo, no motor watts showing, no brake indicator. This is the case using with KT-LCD3 attached or new KT-LCD5 so I guess i've ruled out the lcd being the problem.

Took the wheel off tonight and opened up the motor - all looks clean, cables look ok don't really no what else to look for there. with a multimeter i have continuity on the end of the 9 pin cable between the three big phase pins. motor is stiffer to turn if i short these as i've read it should be if its working. Checked for continuity between middle negative pins and all other pins and there isn't which i think is correct.

Not sure what to try next - im hoping it is still the controller that's at fault but cant understand whats happened to the new controller to the point that now doesn't seem to work at all other than allow me to turn he system on.

any ideas or further troubleshooting ideas appreciated

 

[Nealh]

Several users have posted about controller issues with the Yose KT, I used a KT dual voltage one from Aliexp with no issues.

1. P1 setting figure should be about 84.

2. I would first disconnect throttle and brakes and test with just PAS, in the hope one is causing conflict.

3. Try a system restore C10 after noting down all the P & C settings.

4. Check the controller Phase resistance with a multimeter (not easy with the julet cable), so you may have to open the controller and take a more direct approach.
With no battery connected black probe to V- wire/contact and Red to each phase in turn ( use 200k) setting on dial, results should be very similar all three 9k - 15 k or so, any one which is widely different means a faulty mosfet.
Also do the same test but Red to V+ wire/contact and balck to phases readings again should all be the same but likely different to the previous ones, you may just see 1/ infinity which is fine. If any read 0 then mosfet faulty.

5. Check motor halls again tricky with Julets so might have to go direct via controller, though you will need to be careful as battery power is needed.
Set meter dial to dc 20v, between gnd & 5v you should see 4 - 5v.
Next check between gnd & hall colours, slowly turn the wheel backwards. You should see them switching 0 - 5v, any that don't then either hall failed or connection issue on that line.

 

[Jammyb]

Thanks Nealh
I've just checked the the phase wires opening the controller, against negative they all read between 9-10k.

Against positive I get reading of '1' for all so I guess they are ok?

P1 has been set to 84 and ive tried the other steps a few times now ;-(

ill have to check the motor tomorrow eve, thanks for the info

 

[Nealh]

Someone else had a power issue with PAS can;t remember the outcome but it can only be a lcd or controller related fault.

 

[Jammyb]

Right done some more testing, all using old 37v batt and original controller and lcd3
Bike in stand connected to power with controller open checked ground to blue, then green, then yellow in controller whilst rotating wheel backwards all three read as they should going between 0-5v as the wheel rotated.

the other three cables: red was constant 5v, black is ground and white reads 5v for nearly full revolution of wheel and only dips to 0 when sensor pass’s the magnet ( took hub plate off to confirm only 1 magnet in place I assume for speed sensing )

Motor seemed to be spinning at full speed this time not slowly as it had been doing yesterday.

throttle and pas was working. Testing the three bigger phases cables whilst motor was active shows steady 20v on each (blue, green and yellow)

then on a third check using the throttle motor stopped and now won’t operate via the throttle.

Located the cable for the throttle cables on controller, brown, white and black earth. There is 5v between brown and black, 0.85 between white and black that rises to 3.45 when throttle is operated.

does that sound right or should it be 0v - 5v??

the pedal assist sensor is still operating at the mo and is reading between 0.02v to 4.46v

all this time the lcd is still set to 0 assist number which should be preventing motor operating at all!?

pretty sure the 4in1 wire loom is ok, opened up lcd and check continuity between cables soldered to pcb there and the corresponding ends in the controller - all fine.

experiencing exact same behaviour if i swop the lcd3 unit for the new smaller lcd5.

so sounds like controller is the problem even though all tests on it via a multimeter say otherwise.

I’m still totally lost then as to why the new it controller I purchased will not power the motor at all ??? ( it did briefly when first plugged in then stopped and never has since)

 

[Jammyb]

If I turn pedals to start motor then hold throttle open and stop turning pedals motor continues to spin untill I release throttle but apply throttle again won’t start it once stopped

 

[Jammyb]

Hmm If I disconnect the throttle the 3 pin plug "one of the brake sensor plugs" is showing 24v on one pin and 4.6v on the other??
was probing the wrong plug above - the brake one was showing 24v on one of the pins not the throttle.


The throttle controller end of cable is 0.84v and 4.6

 

[Nealh]

Throttle voltage is low on one count.
Gnd to 5v is 5v, so correct.
Gnd to signal/White is ok up to or about 1v.
Throttle when open you should see 4 - 5v, 3.45 is low.
The magnet may have moved in the throttle or throttle hall faulty,

Without motor active do you get the full battery SOC on V+ to each of the phases.

 

[Jammyb]

Thanks Nealh, ill take the throttle apart tonight and see if anythings wrong inside of that.

Without motor active do you get the full battery SOC on V+ to each of the phases.

Sorry not sure what you mean by that?

The battery voltage when I was testing last night was 40.3v. When motor was running each of the three phase wires from the controller (yellow, blue and red phase) where reading 20v whilst throttle (when working) was held open or pedals were turned.

should they actually be the full 40.3v on each phase?

Ill test again tonight what the reading is when the motor is not running if that's what you mean?

 

[Nealh]

SOC (State of charge/battery charge).
A static motor should see SOC on each of the phases, with the motor running the SOC will be less.

For instance my battery is at 36.3v which I see on each phase, when I power up the motor the voltage drops to about 22.4v so about 33% less.
It's not without reason that the controller may be faulty even if new.

 

[Jammyb]

SOC (State of charge/battery charge).
A static motor should see SOC on each of the phases, with the motor running the SOC will be less.

For instance my battery is at 36.3v which I see on each phase, when I power up the motor the voltage drops to about 22.4v so about 33% less.
It's not without reason that the controller may be faulty even if new.

aha thanks that makes sense - i'll check when i'm home tonight

 

[Jammyb]

When controller is on there is no voltage reading from each of the three phase wires. If I operate the pedal when the motor starts the voltage on each phase wire rises quickly to 20v and stays at that until motor stops. Battery voltage is 40.3v so I’m not getting SOC on phases. As the motor slows and stops voltage drops back to 0.
Is that a controller fault?

 

[Jammyb]

Whilst testing with multimeter again tonight, throttle disconnected just turning pedals then motor slowed and lcd turned off. Turned on again and now only have slow motor operation again. All threes phase wire voltage are rising to only 12v then dropping and staying at about 10v

I have bought another one of those kt controllers on amazon, that should be here tomorrow. Then I can rule out the new one I got the other day being faulty of just not working with my kit.

 

[Nealh]

Phase wires all three should show SOC using the red supply wire, are you sure you are getting good contact. sometimes I use a pair of sewing needles to jam down inside connectors and use my probe on them.
It sounds likely/ possible the controller voltage regulator is at fault.

 

[Jammyb]

Phase wires all three should show SOC using the red supply wire, are you sure you are getting good contact. sometimes I use a pair of sewing needles to jam down inside connectors and use my probe on them.
It sounds likely/ possible the controller voltage regulator is at fault.

For some reason I missed the fact you said between POSITIVE V+ and the phase wires, I was measuring voltage from phase wire to negative.
Yes they do all have full SOC when motor is inactive which drops to about 20v when active.

Honestly I am at a total loss now I have tested as far as I understand each point of failure.

- replaced LCD
- confirmed throttle is working
- confirmed pedal sensor is working
- checked every pin in 4in1 cable each end with a pin attached to multimeter checked continuity and that none of the cables are shorted to each other
- confirmed at controller pcb signal is received and voltages behave as they should on pedal sensor and throttle
- tested none of mosfets on controller are shorted to ground
- purchased new 48v battery and KT controller - controller worked for a min then stopped powering motor
- checked motor hub wiring, see fluctuating 5v on all hals when wheel spun backwards
- get constant 5v on speed sensor wire that dips as magnet passes sensor.
- no shorts to ground, red give constant 5v

today received another new controller:

- connected up, throttle worked and gave full speed to motor
- pedal assist sensor did not work despite it working with original controller
- opened controller and made sure sure signal cable was registering pedal assist rotating ( it was but not activating motor)

Then motor seem to slow right down on full throttle to the same slow speed i was getting on original controller.
I tried the other new controller that was not doing anything yesterday and it behaved the same! throttle worked only - motor spinning slow speed.

I've had brake sensors disconnected to keep them out of the equation.
Never once on any of the three controllers or 2 lcd displays have I seen speedo reading or motor watts displayed and assist setting is ignored make no difference to operation on 0-5. 'Assist' word on the display that used to flash when pedals activated motor no long flashes.

Tried all combinations of controllers with either just throttle plugged in before turning on or just pedal assist sensor. Made sure all connector connections are good, no bent pins and cable checks from inside controller to individual component cable ends.

Sooo disappointed right now - do I just spend more money and get another kit from yose to try a new motor even though the checks I can and have done point to the motor being ok. Could it be intermittent motor issue - it was at one point running full speed on the bike rack with the 2nd new controller this avo so I know it 'can' work and isn't blown :-(

Is there anyone in southampton with similar kit that could help me eliminate where the problem is - i'd happily pay you for your time ?

 

[Nealh]

Which PAS are you using ?

All seems a bit odd so can't really add any more from a far.

 

[Jammyb]

Which PAS are you using ?

All seems a bit odd so can't really add any more from a far.

It’s a KT V12L. I know nothing seems to make logical sense. I’ve emailed yose and they are going to send me a price for replacement 4in1 cable and motor. Can’t think what else to try. Then I’ve replaced all but throttle and pas.

 

[Nealh]

My motor works faultlessly but I never used the Yose controller kit as I sold it to someone, my KT stuff was already on my bike so used that as it was working fine.

This is isn't the first time someone has mentioned issues with the Yose kit but not to your extent. Throwing money at cheap kit willy nilly can get expensive without knowing what is wrong.

 

[Jammyb]

Thankfully I can return the 2 controllers and KT-LCD5 to Amazon within 30 days.

As I have purchased a new 48v 13.5ah battery now I think my best option is to maybe purchase this kit from yose. I'm still waiting on dispatch of this controller that fits the integrated battery holder (prob going to be a month or so before that turns up).

Then I will have a complete new kit and a few spares for future troubleshooting, once new controller arrives total cost of kit intend to use would be:

£212.89 - Battery
£44.05 - Integrated controller
£186.90 - New Yosemotor kit with all parts

£442- Total - for hopefully my ideal kit (ideal being what I had originally but with a bit more torque not requiring a shunt mod ).

When yose come back with a price for replacement 4in1 cable and replacement wheel I guess depending on cost I need to decide weather instead to:

A - purchase just cable to rule that out
B - purchase replacement motor to rule that out
C - if individual price is not much cheaper than the kit go ahead and get that to have space controller, pas, throttle and display.

 

[scott gaza]

watch out Jammyb, i have just received a new yose rear with battery at 23v. it will take up till the 17th to sort out Chinese new year! But the rest of the kit is fine. go direct it works out cheaper £161.