Petition to legalizing throttle only eBikes for the disabled

[soundwave]

round here you will get run over and stabbed for the inconvenience of the driver.

Cyclist in serious condition after being hit by car and stabbed | ITV News

A 27-year-old man remains in serious condition after he was run over and stabbed in Gloucester. | ITV News West Country

www.itv.com

 

[Kev.k]

round here you will get run over and stabbed for the inconvenience of the driver.

Cyclist in serious condition after being hit by car and stabbed | ITV News

A 27-year-old man remains in serious condition after he was run over and stabbed in Gloucester. | ITV News West Country

www.itv.com

That’s overly harsh.

I admit I’ve gone mental at cyclists 100’s of times over the years. One of my biggest annoyances as a driver.

My attitude was always “wankers should have to pay tax and insurance”. I admit I’m now a hypocrite

 

[flecc]

One thing I'm still confused about is the 250w limit. Exactly how would they test this?

They don't and won't test this.

It only depends on what the specification of the pedelec or kit motor was rated at by the manufacturer and whether it has been modified beyond the original specification. That's why new e-bikes should have plating. though kit bikes don't have to:

"As part of the GB EAPC amending legislation, that will come into force on 6 April 2015, the requirement for the marking identification has been amended. Previously a plate showing the manufacturer, maximum continuous rated power output and voltage was necessary, from April 6 2015 the requirement will be that the manufacturer, maximum continuous rated output and maximum assisted cutoff speed shall be marked on the cycle."
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[Benjahmin]

And this is why this 'continuous power rating' is utter nonsense and meaningless.
A 250w continuous rating means that the motor will run at that rating continuously (normally taken to be 30 minutes +)without overheating.
So all that could be done is to input a precise 6.94A (250w at 36v) and see that the motor does not overheat !
But batteries are hardly ever at 36v.
Is this input or output power?
It says nothing about peak power.
A motor will run at what is put into it. The higher the voltage the greater the rpm. The higher the current the higher the torque. Of course, eventually, you will arrive at the point of burning out the windings.
So, do they test to destruction to find the power of a motor?
And so we get dozens of people coming on this forum wrapped up in big numbers, 1k motors etc. When all they need is a legally rated motor but with a control syatem tuned to what they want it to do and, complying to assisted speed limit, they will be perfectly legal.

 

[matthewslack]

And this is why this 'continuous power rating' is utter nonsense and meaningless.
A 250w continuous rating means that the motor will run at that rating continuously (normally taken to be 30 minutes +)without overheating.
So all that could be done is to input a precise 6.94A (250w at 36v) and see that the motor does not overheat !
But batteries are hardly ever at 36v.
Is this input or output power?
It says nothing about peak power.
A motor will run at what is put into it. The higher the voltage the greater the rpm. The higher the current the higher the torque. Of course, eventually, you will arrive at the point of burning out the windings.
So, do they test to destruction to find the power of a motor?
And so we get dozens of people coming on this forum wrapped up in big numbers, 1k motors etc. When all they need is a legally rated motor but with a control syatem tuned to what they want it to do and, complying to assisted speed limit, they will be perfectly legal.

Strictly speaking, the motor MUST overheat at the 30 minute mark, because otherwise it is capable of more than 250W for 30 min...and so not compliant with ENxxxxx.

But from the consumer point of view, it must NOT overheat before 30 minutes, because otherwise the customer has been sold a sub-250W motor according to the test spec.

Only motors which last exactly 30 minutes satisfy both requirements!

 

[flecc]

Only motors which last exactly 30 minutes satisfy both requirements!

Which since that is temperature dependent will only happen at a certain ambient temperature, perhaps only one day in a year. So it is all a bit silly really.

The most sensible thing said on this subject came from the European Parliament who, after debating it, suggested to the EU Commission that there should be no power limit, just the 25 kph (15.5mph) assist limit with the motor power for that left entirely to the designer.

We know that works from the S class pedelecs. Originally underpowered with 250 watts for their 45 kph (28mph) limit, that was upped to a legal 500 watts limit. But with experience most makers have settled on 350 watts as being the best compromise for optimum performance and range.

But the Commission, 28 time served ex politicians, one from each country, rejected the suggestion. Just one more nail in the coffin of mankind's survival prospects.
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[Benjahmin]

Yup, let them have the speed limited big powerful motors with all their big number bragging rites, and I'll run a very profitable national flat battery recovery service.

 

[Sarge1892]

That’s overly harsh.

I admit I’ve gone mental at cyclists 100’s of times over the years. One of my biggest annoyances as a driver.

My attitude was always “wankers should have to pay tax and insurance”. I admit I’m now a hypocrite

I always find this ironic the tax is one thing and honestly is never going to be a issue 20 quid tops

as for the insurance I've been looking into this and the funny part is for as dangerous they think we are our insurance is some of the cheapest you can get

I think a quote I got was for 1200 quids worth of bike 300 quid of accessories and covered like 800k of third party damage

short of crashing head first into a Lamborghini dealership with a trailer full of hammersand bowling balls I cant imagine how id ever rack up that much damage

meanwhile the most minor damage the car could ever inflict is still gonna be 100 quid

but all this still only cost I wanna say 150 a year
they even tossed in a crappy cable bike lock its like they want to see my bike stolen so they can finally make a decent pay out

 

[flecc]

I always find this ironic the tax is one thing and honestly is never going to be a issue 20 quid tops

It wouldn't actually cost anything since e-vehicles currently dont have to pay the Vehicle Excise Duty, even though liable to register for it.

So each year I have to apply to renew it on my electric car, but it costs nothing.
.

 

[Kev.k]

I always find this ironic the tax is one thing and honestly is never going to be a issue 20 quid tops

as for the insurance I've been looking into this and the funny part is for as dangerous they think we are our insurance is some of the cheapest you can get

I think a quote I got was for 1200 quids worth of bike 300 quid of accessories and covered like 800k of third party damage

short of crashing head first into a Lamborghini dealership with a trailer full of hammersand bowling balls I cant imagine how id ever rack up that much damage

meanwhile the most minor damage the car could ever inflict is still gonna be 100 quid

but all this still only cost I wanna say 150 a year
they even tossed in a crappy cable bike lock its like they want to see my bike stolen so they can finally make a decent pay out

Insurance will obviously be massively cheaper. Cyclists can’t cause the damage a motorist can. Bikes are now stupidly expensive but don’t cost anywhere near what a decent car does.

When motorist say cyclist should be licensed, taxed and insured. They mean it should be a legal obligation If they are on the road. Same as a moped.

 

[flecc]

When motorist say cyclist should be licensed, taxed and insured. They mean it should be a legal obligation If they are on the road. Same as a moped.

The problem with cycling is historical, in that we've always allowed children of any age to cycle on the roads. Since they mostly cannot be held legally liable, they cannot be licenced or insured.
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[Kev.k]

The problem with cycling is historical, in that we've always allowed children of any age to cycle on the roads. Since they mostly cannot be held legally liable, they cannot be licenced or insured.
,

Is not something I feel strongly about. Apart from when a cyclist thinks they own the road or does something stupid, which is very rare.

Its always the ones in full Lycra with half a Easter egg on their heads.

I wouldn’t want to see kids banned from cycling. There are enough fat lil shits these days as it is.

 

[Plas man]

Tax bikes ? , no mention of gee gee’s , bikes have brakes (most of them) , but horses just go mad - even police hoses respond violently whenI pass in my Villiers powered microcar .

as for the common market we should never have entered , but year later we should not have left .

 

[Sarge1892]

Insurance will obviously be massively cheaper. Cyclists can’t cause the damage a motorist can. Bikes are now stupidly expensive but don’t cost anywhere near what a decent car does.

When motorist say cyclist should be licensed, taxed and insured. They mean it should be a legal obligation If they are on the road. Same as a moped.

honestly when a motorist says tax bikes and make them get insurance its usually because there envious that they have to pay those things to sit in there multi tonne fossil fueled arm chairs and don't think its fair

the reality is tax is based of vehicle weight (bigger weight more damage to road surface) and its emissions

so how much exactly should a10kg bike with no emissions pay?

cause I just looked and the tax rate for a car that's electric appears to be £0 so why should we pay tax?
i mean we can do what cars do and get a £0 tax disc on the principal of the matter but why create the extra beurocracy for registration and identification to give a bike a tax disc that wont even generate any taxable revenue?

as for insurance as someone who has had a bike stolen I already have insurance and I didn't get it cause I was worried about the 60 quid of damage to some guys car and fully comp costs like 120 quid a year

if you was to force tax the bare minimum tax for a bike is gonna be like 20 quid for third party only insurance

 

[Sarge1892]

you know i just got to thinking isn't it funny how no one complains about mobility scooters which are usually driven by senile idiots who think they can do stuff like drive on motorways