Pedelecs frum makes me feel sick

[tillson]

somehow I suspect that it's not flud who was the cause for d8veh's leaving. Until recently, the forum was a place where most threads were about technical matters, what should you have in your next bike sort of things and helping newbies to avoid silly mistakes like buying a bike too big for their height or too weak for their hills. The change started when KTM Col started on the issue of the dongle and s-pedelecs. The argument was not so much about the technical merits but a legal one, treating members who bought dongles and s-pedelecs with contempt, which is uncalled for. I disagree with the use of dongle or the sale of s-pedelecs but I can't see the justification to use the forum to insult the intelligence of people who decide differently for themselves.

I think emotions run high because people perceive that those who use illegal bikes will ultimately cause problems for those who don't. The illegal users tend not to understand this and think that the legal guys are being self righteous and trying to spoil their enjoyment. The legal bike users tend to have difficulty in accepting that the chances of illegal bike use causing them problems is slim. And so it goes around.

However, why should one side gag the other through the use of a moderator? People should be able to discuss whatever they like, but in so doing they must be prepared to hear the conflicting argument, no matter how frequently it crops up.

This is just one example, but the principle applies to other topics.

 

[the_killjoy]

Hearing the arguments is fine, its when they keep going round and round and on and on finding their way into every thread.

 

[tillson]

Hearing the arguments is fine, its when they keep going round and round and on and on finding their way into every thread.

But, unfortunately in the example of illegal bike use, this subject will continue to crop up as people discuss kits and S Pedelecs which they either have or are considering purchasing. People will continue to make their opinion know (pro or against), and that in my view is fair and proper.

 

[Yamdude]

But, unfortunately in the example of illegal bike use, this subject will continue to crop up as people discuss kits and S Pedelecs which they either have or are considering purchasing. People will continue to make their opinion know (pro or against), and that in my view is fair and proper.

If posters like Flud et al had their way, even talking about non legal ebikes would be banned on this forum. They also keep saying legal ebikes will get banned from places where they can currently go, as a statement of fact. When its just their opinion or an assumption and nothing more.
The people that talk about illegal kits and bikes, are just talking about their own bikes and their own preferences and NOT telling others they should be doing the same.
Its the anti illegal ebike control freaks that have caused divisions on this forum..... Thankfully they dont own this forum and neither are they mods on here.

 

[flecc]

Regrettably I fear we do, to avoid losing members who contribute great knowledge and skill.
Being polite should be rule #1 and will quickly set the forum tone and culture to an extent where that rule is no longer needed, if applied rigorously for a month or so.

I agree on the need for politeness Bob. When I joined this forum as its first member ten years ago, quickly becoming a key member, I tried hard to set a standard of courtesy and good mannered discussion from the outset. For a very long time that was successful and the high standard of this forum was often commented on by new members who had been bruised elsewhere on the web.

This has tended to change somewhat with the ever growing membership and diversity of e-bike interests, both of those factors leading to posting conflict.

I think the way to overcome the problems isn't with tougher moderation though. Instead it's best done by example, the more of us who continue to post courteously, the more others are likely to follow that trend by responding likewise.
.

 

[timidtom]

The forum is bigger than any single person, so, like before, I don't expect I'll be missed. In fact, when I take a step back and think about it, why bother? I get no financial incentive, nor do I have any point to prove or agenda to indoctrinate people with. I'm thinking that I'm a sad bar steward for wasting so much time. If I'm honest, I only do it because I'm too lazy to do something else.[/QUOTE]

I, for one, would be very sorry to see anyone with your enthusiasm for ebikes leave the forum. I value your wealth of knowledge and the kindness and help you have offered over the years. As one who sees the world through the eyes of Pooh Bear ( bear of very little brain, and long words bother me) I have enjoyed the wide range of contributions, from highly technical to romantic accounts of travels, films of technical processes (how do they do that?) to mapped routes of favourite rides.
Most of my own offerings have been in this section, off-topic ramblings of an elderly potterer, with a few attempts at road-tests of a more emotional than engineering slant.
Please, from a 'Know-nothing', don't leave!
Best wishes,
Tom

 

[JuicyBike]

I, for one, would be very sorry to see anyone with your enthusiasm for ebikes leave the forum. I value your wealth of knowledge and the kindness and help you have offered over the years. As one who sees the world through the eyes of Pooh Bear (the bear of very little brain, and long words bother me) I have enjoyed the wide range of contributions, from highly technical to romantic accounts of travels, films of technical processes (how do they do that?) to mapped routes of favourite rides.
Most of my own offerings have been in this section, off-topic ramblings of an elderly potterer, and a few attempts at road-tests of a more emotional than engineering slant.
Please, as a 'Know-nothing', don't leave!
Best wishes,
Tom

Well said Tom - and back on topic too. Don't leave Dave!

 

[tillson]

Don't leave Dave!

Im afraid that if he wants to leave, he should just go. It's not right to make a veiled ransome demand for more moderating on the pages.

Personally, I hope that he doesn't leave because his contributions are an asset to the forum and he has clearly helped a lot of people. We have had our disagreements in the past and he has shown me to be wrong on occasions. I hold no animosity towards d8veh, but I don't like all the, "I'm leaving unless" drama.

 

[trex]

...
I hold no animosity towards d8veh, but I don't like all the, "I'm leaving unless" drama.

we may have read too much into this but he didn't say that though.
Personally, I think E.S. is dead boring and irrelevant to UK pedelecers.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

If posters like Flud et al had their way, even talking about non legal ebikes would be banned on this forum. They also keep saying legal ebikes will get banned from places where they can currently go, as a statement of fact. When its just their opinion or an assumption and nothing more.

you do realise this website is called "pedelecs".... which does have a definition in the UK, but we'll ignore that bit

and I'm sorry, but I'm afraid its not based on irrational fear, its based on facts and conversations with land owners and organisers and it is already starting.

http://www.cyclingmadeeasy.co.uk/e-bikes-at-cycling-made-easy/press-release-british-heart-foundation-pulls-plug-electric-bikes/

 

[tillson]

we may have read too much into this but he didn't say that though.

I don't want to get into a dispute over someone else's dispute, but he did say that.

He initially made some pretty strong comments supporting heavier handed moderation and followed that up by saying that until something changes, he wouldn't be on the forum.

However, I still don't know what the catalyst is for all this.

 

[flecc]

Personally, I think E.S. is dead boring and irrelevant to UK pedelecers.

Which is why I've never taken part.
.

 

[JuicyBike]

I guess it's up to the moderators, but I hope they notice that not everyone is thick skinned and can be moved to leave an impolite and sometimes quite abusive environment.
In the same way that we often (even in the UK) need guidance on how to queue fairly, I think moderating abusive posts more frequently would be a help - no worse than having to follow a few yards of roped barriers at airports for instance.

 

[anotherkiwi]

we may have read too much into this but he didn't say that though.
Personally, I think E.S. is dead boring and irrelevant to UK pedelecers.

There are a couple of interesting subjects and lots of knowledge on R/C lipo and making your own 18650 battery packs. And they have lots of photos of motor teardowns and controller mods.

 

[Yamdude]

you do realise this website is called "pedelecs".... which does have a definition in the UK, but we'll ignore that bit

and I'm sorry, but I'm afraid its not based on irrational fear, its based on facts and conversations with land owners and organisers and it is already starting.

http://www.cyclingmadeeasy.co.uk/e-bikes-at-cycling-made-easy/press-release-british-heart-foundation-pulls-plug-electric-bikes/

Based on facts ?..... What facts are those then ?
All we've had from you, is hearsay that legal ebikes will get banned from places because of speed pedelecs, dongles etc. Its just your claims of what land owners have told you..... and as we all know you have an agenda, i'm not likely to automatically believe those claims.
As for the BHF banning ebikes in their fundraising rides..... well thats nothing to do with illegal ebikes is it ! There's nothing mentioned about them in that report. It seems that ebikes would have been banned even if illegal ebikes never existed at all.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Based on facts ?..... What facts are those then ?
All we've had from you, is hearsay that legal ebikes will get banned from places because of speed pedelecs, dongles etc. Its just your claims of what land owners have told you..... and as we all know you have an agenda, i'm not likely to automatically believe those claims.
As for the BHF banning ebikes in their fundraising rides..... well thats nothing to do with illegal ebikes is it ! There's nothing mentioned about them in that report. It seems that ebikes would have been banned even if illegal ebikes never existed at all.

is there any chance we can have a face palm, head hit desk smiley please

BHF and the others aren't going to say they are banning things because they can't police the law, because the illegal ones are already illegal. What's happening in this example will also happen at Forest Commission land, or on the Wiggle rides or everything else because the powers that be, can't police things so they will ban everything.

I don't know what you think our agenda is? How can protecting the industry, access and customers be a negative?

We sell eBikes, so we could allow our dealers to sell dongles, and we even make sPedelecs, so we could allow our dealers to sell them.

Can you please explain to me what you think my agenda is, because I think this is at the crux of your issue with our stance. What is the agenda??

 

[Yamdude]

is there any chance we can have a face palm, head hit desk smiley please

BHF and the others aren't going to say they are banning things because they can't police the law, because the illegal ones are already illegal. What's happening in this example will also happen at Forest Commission land, or on the Wiggle rides or everything else because the powers that be, can't police things so they will ban everything.

I don't know what you think our agenda is? How can protecting the industry, access and customers be a negative?

We sell eBikes, so we could allow our dealers to sell dongles, and we even make sPedelecs, so we could allow our dealers to sell them.

Can you please explain to me what you think my agenda is, because I think this is at the crux of your issue with our stance. What is the agenda??

is there any chance we can have a face palm, head hit desk smiley please

BHF and the others aren't going to say they are banning things because they can't police the law, because the illegal ones are already illegal. What's happening in this example will also happen at Forest Commission land, or on the Wiggle rides or everything else because the powers that be, can't police things so they will ban everything.

I don't know what you think our agenda is? How can protecting the industry, access and customers be a negative?

We sell eBikes, so we could allow our dealers to sell dongles, and we even make sPedelecs, so we could allow our dealers to sell them.

Can you please explain to me what you think my agenda is, because I think this is at the crux of your issue with our stance. What is the agenda??

Nope..... cant see any facts in there. Just your usual scaremongering of what could happen, possibly, maybe, might be. Assumptions thats all.
The BHF report is there for all to read and there's absolutely nothing in there about illegal ebikes..... you're just twisting it to suit your own agenda against non legal ebikes.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Why do you think I've got an agenda against illegal bikes?

and why do you think BHF have banned eBikes then?

 

[anotherkiwi]

and why do you think BHF have banned eBikes then?

Because they don't have a clue. The risk is that people don't get out on their e-bike and do their cardio-training thus limiting risk of heart attack! They don't have a clue about what an e-bike is and what a pedelec is and the good that these do to people with heart condition. Their ban is irresponsible.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

In my opinion ( not that it means much on here) BHF banned ebikes/ pedelecs because they have such a poor image. Cant imagine why ???