Pedelecs frum makes me feel sick

[LeighPing]

Total impartiality is down to how you handle the impact of the information that's posted. Not how you handle who writes it. Or, how they think and live their lives. Each to their own.

The front page contains the legislative guidance some members may be interested to know about. That's as much as they will get, unless they ask for more via pm. Generally, we're not a children's forum because mainly adults post here and there aren't too many kiddies with ebikes. Reasonable banter and strong opinions are ever present and evidently welcomed. Having said that, we're not the 'dark-net' either!

Moderators are not referees for morality, there are no forum police, there are rules and guidelines. In reality, not much needs doing here by way of moderation. But, if people are leaving, it's a problem that needs addressing.

 

[trex]

one possible reason why some may find the forum boring is fewer technical threads. Going back a few years, Alex kept us enthralled with his build for a long time. Nothing like that now.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I'm waiting on the money for Number Two, any day now...

Executive summary: first bike will be torn apart for useful bits + GSM, external controller, big lipo battery. Missing as well as motor: cassette, rear brake, rear wheel, tyres and tubes, chain and mudguards (it rains a lot here).

I promise lots of photos and technical details galore!

 

[Cyclezee]

Sorry that you are leaving Dave, but I hope it won't be for too long.

Personally speaking I spend very little time on here these days, it used to be more fun, but most of that seems to have gone.

If anyone has any questions or comments that they would like me to respond to relating to eZee, Heinzmann etc., please send an email to cyclezee@gmail.com as I am unlikely see them otherwise.

In the meantime just chill, crank up the volume and check this out

 

[LeighPing]

one possible reason why some may find the forum boring is fewer technical threads. Going back a few years, Alex kept us enthralled with his build for a long time. Nothing like that now.

Depends on your technical level Trex. I find that lots of threads are technical to me cos I'm an e-newb.. for now. It's all Dutch to me. Everyone's been there at some point.

All forums get that way after you've been there a while with 'Hi, I'm new and need advice' or 'Help, my bike is bricked'.. It's droll, but important to them that's asking.

In the meantime crank up the volume and check this out

I was playing this on my handlebar mp3 player yesterday. Awesome!

 

[tillson]

I think members becoming Moderators is a bad move, especially appointing those who seek to become moderators. Censorship of anything that they personally disagree with is certain to creep in. The two site owners tend to act if things cross a line.

I really don't know what the fuss is all about anyway. How can words written by a person you have never met, don't know the identity of, don't care about and unlikely to ever encounter cause a problem?

Don't engage with someone if you don't like them, but please, no members moderating, that would be bad.

Maybe there is less of interest to talk about because it's all been said. When I joined in 2008, battery technology was moving to Lithium and that brought with it advances in ebikes, so plenty to discuss. Today, 8 years later, things haven't advanced that much. The bikes are essentially the same.

I see a few have expressed concerns over the new Emojis and how they could cause bad feeling now. Really? Is this what mankind has come to? Our precious feelings injured by a sad face or a thumbs down?

 

[HelenJ]

The two site owners tend to act if things cross a line.

Correct - that's what we aim to do because that was what members previously wanted (a light touch on admin)...rather than we wade in at every opportunity. Long term members will probably know that but more recent ones may not (someone posted about 'weak moderation' for instance).

Also when misunderstandings or differences of opinion have led to ill feeling in the past, things usually have worked themselves out without us wading in. As usual we welcome feedback though.

 

[SteveRuss]

I've mentioned before that I was a senior moderator on what was (and may still be) the largest music site in the world, for over ten years.

One thing I learnt was that moderating isn't an exact science at all. It's actually dead tough at times and a world class thankless task. Everyone has their own opinion on how to tackle these things. Only a few rules of engagement were considered to be universally recommendable.

The point I wanted to make is, the best moderators I have come across are general quite silent in their dealings and are more often than not, relatively hands off on the forum. I think it's hard to moderate properly when everyone is your mate. That said, being a poster and understanding the other posters is an asset. I don't therefore believe that whoever moderates here is necessarily in the best position to do the best job of it. If that makes sense.

Anyone that offers to moderate in general must have a screw loose if they've done it before. I wouldn't go back to it without some serious remuneration.. !!

Oh. And of course you'll be missed.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I moderated on a boat building forum where most of the posters were good ole boys from the deep south (rednecks if you will). I got thrown off as moderator by the rednecks...

This place is fine I have a couple of people on my undesirable list and have held back from adding a couple of others (you know who you are!) but it is very English compared to other places I hang out.

 

[SteveRuss]

I moderated on a boat building forum where most of the posters were good ole boys from the deep south (rednecks if you will). I got thrown off as moderator by the rednecks...

This place is fine I have a couple of people on my undesirable list and have held back from adding a couple of others (you know who you are!) but it is very English compared to other places I hang out.

Yep. Maybe i'm lucky but personally I don't really see anything that offensive on here. Maybe it's because i'm selective with what forums I actually read through.

 

[tillson]

The point I wanted to make is, the best moderators I have come across are general quite silent in their dealings and are more often than not, relatively hands off on the forum. I think it's hard to moderate properly when everyone is your mate.

I think we have this with HelenJ and Russ who currently moderate the forum. They step in only when necessary, usually if something is posted which could leave them exposed to legal action, is obscene or is downright nasty. Hence, we hardly see them and the forum ticks over quite nicely.

There are some on here with a hair-trigger sense of offence and if ever they got hold of the moderator's mallet it would be a complete night-mare.

I sense an attempt by some to seek more control of the forum and I am pleased to see that this particular aspiration has been nipped in the bud.

 

[stumpy150]

I received sanctions on another forum for breaking a forum rule by posting a link to a website , just a link relating to the subject being discussed( I should have provided a full description AND the link - pointless !!) I was reminded of the rules, which were not apparent on the forum, so I asked for a copy / link to the rules and was then accused of being a trouble maker !!! So I "took my business" elsewhere !!

Just take everything with a pinch of salt ... Forums are forums and are not NATO declarations of war or life deciding issues ... Vote with your feet if not happy as life is too short to worry about them

 

[anotherkiwi]

American forums are very complicated, very thin skinned the Americans, no sense of humour, no common sense and very little culture. I got into huge trouble in my first internet year saying that they didn't win the war alone which appears to be kind of a Doh! basic truth except if you are American...

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Forum needs some policies and moderators with time and commitment to point them out.
I,ve asked for policy on most aspects we,ve all being arguing about, including posting about drugs ; insulting each other and the " illegal " bike debacle. They have never got back, so I assume they are working on their own. Ie no guidelines/ policies.
Without these it becomes an individuals view of what's acceptable. Hence the soul searching and arguments.
Forum is ,for good or bad ,a free for alll zone.
Folk have left from both sides of disagreement, with comments from mods sadly lacking to either.
D8 makes a good point. His technical knowledge would be a loss.

 

[tillson]

Forum needs some policies and moderators with time and commitment to point them out.
I,ve asked for policy on most aspects we,ve all being arguing about, including posting about drugs ; insulting each other and the " illegal " bike debacle. They have never got back, so I assume they are working on their own. Ie no guidelines/ policies.
Without these it becomes an individuals view of what's acceptable. Hence the soul searching and arguments.
Forum is ,for good or bad ,a free for alll zone.
Folk have left from both sides of disagreement, with comments from mods sadly lacking to either.
D8 makes a good point. His technical knowledge would be a loss.

We've got all of the above and don't need any further regulation. Do we really need a rule to say don't offend each other? What constitutes an insult or offence anyway? Who decides? As we have seen, there are people on this forum who have expressed a potential to become offended by pixels arranged arranged in such a way as to depict a downwards facing thumb.

Rather than being made moderators, these people need a good slap.

 

[JuicyBike]

Do we really need a rule to say don't offend each other?

Regrettably I fear we do, to avoid losing members who contribute great knowledge and skill.
Being polite should be rule #1 and will quickly set the forum tone and culture to an extent where that rule is no longer needed, if applied rigorously for a month or so.

 

[electrickery]

From Wikipedia,
"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement......."

I have directed 2 friends to this forum recently telling them its a great source of information, BOTH have come back and said there seems to be some idiots on it. It is becoming harder to sort the wheat from the chaff due to the arguments . The forum is in danger of slipping to the lowest common denominator. Very sad.

 

[LeighPing]

Without these it becomes an individuals view of what's acceptable. Hence the soul searching and arguments.

You make some good, informative and interesting posts Flud. However, what's not acceptable is the legislation pointed out in almost every post by you. There doesn't need to be a rule telling us that people are sick of hearing it. Your policing impacts on the culture of the forum and good members are voting with their feet. That much you know already.

Free speech is fine, post whatever you like, until it becomes repetitive trolling and causes imbalance. For that the rule of common sense would be applied and I, for one, would have disappeared those posts long ago.

What exactly are you hoping to achieve with all that spam Flud? You made your point long ago. It's simply posted to agitate now. That's not an opinion.

 

[trex]

somehow I suspect that it's not flud who was the cause for d8veh's leaving. Until recently, the forum was a place where most threads were about technical matters, what should you have in your next bike sort of things and helping newbies to avoid silly mistakes like buying a bike too big for their height or too weak for their hills. The change started when KTM Col started on the issue of the dongle and s-pedelecs. The argument was not so much about the technical merits but a legal one, treating members who bought dongles and s-pedelecs with contempt, which is uncalled for. I disagree with the use of dongle or the sale of s-pedelecs but I can't see the justification to use the forum to insult the intelligence of people who decide differently for themselves.

 

[KirstinS]

I don't know what this forum has come to. I've been here on and off for 5 years. Normally, when all the discussions become political and personal, I stop reading and posting for a few months until things quieten down. In those 5 years, I've never know it as bad as it id now. I put this down to insufficient moderation.

I participate in other other forums, where if anybody tries to hijack a thread, one of the many volunteer or official moderators immediately remove the post and add it to any threads that are running on that subject. and if people try to start a duplicate thread, it's immediately locked. Any other transgressions of the rules are also swiftly and efficiently dealt with. Whilst it sounds heavy-handed, it works very well because people soon figure out the rules and consequences. There's no censorship of views or opinions except that people are not allowed to publicly challenge the moderator's decisions.

On this forum, the administrators rarely moderate. When everybody gets on together, that can work, but it's clearly not working at the moment. I think they should think about this.

Anyway, luckily, there's nothing that makes me log on and read all this **, so until something changes and all the narrow-minded wañkers have gone, which is probably never going to happen, I'll be taking another beak from it. The forum is bigger than any single person, so, like before, I don't expect I'll be missed. In fact, when I take a step back and think about it, why bother? I get no financial incentive, nor do I have any point to prove or agenda to indoctrinate people with. I'm thinking that I'm a sad bar steward for wasting so much time. If I'm honest, I only do it because I'm too lazy to do something else.

I share your frustration and have been. Coming here less and less as a result

I tried to articulate this as propose a solution in a post a week or so back.

Didn't really go anywhere

D8veh I always think of you as my mentor in all things ebike. Others have helped me but none so consistently and painstakingly taught me from scratch.

I am massively appreciative and always will be.

Beer/hospitality is yours if you ever come down to my neck of the south coast

See you on es instead I hope