pedelecs banned from UK event...

[dinger19]

I can see that's what you'd like to think.

But they have clearly said - "They state in their communications to us that e-bikes pose a ‘risk’."

As your the sole importer of KTM then you as well as all the other ebike brand distributors have got to get together as well as ebike owners oppose this rather than passing the blame on people with dongled bikes as I do believe they are a minority in the bigger picture.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

As your the sole importer of KTM then you as well as all the other ebike brand distributors have got to get together as well as ebike owners oppose this rather than passing the blame on people with dongled bikes as I do believe they are a minority in the bigger picture.

We are / I am... that's why we shared this! But at the same we will of course continue to highlight the negative impact of people riding illegally powerful bikes in the public arena and how this impacts on us all.

 

[dinger19]

The easiest way round all this is check every bike which they should anyway to make sure it's road legal all this is getting like the doping in regards to sport as they don't ban the sport they ban the competitor.

 

[danielrlee]

We are / I am... that's why we shared this! But at the same we will of course continue to highlight the negative impact of people riding illegally powerful bikes in the public arena and how this impacts on us all.

Have you asked BHF if illegal bikes were a consideration in regards to the decision? If not, surely you ought to.

 

[dinger19]

I mean the BHF pay there executives hundreds of thousands each year and how much extra would it cost to check a tiny tiny fraction of a price.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Have you asked BHF if illegal bikes were a consideration in regards to the decision? If not, surely you ought to.

This is the key fundamental problem that the people who think the illegal bikes aren't an issue - just aren't getting their head around.

The people like BHF, or in the future the Foresty Commission, or National Parks etc etc. Aren't going to put in writing that they are banning all eBikes because of the illegal ones, because the illegal ones are already banned! So their legal teams won't let them, because it could be challenged because they are banning something legal because of something else.

However in practice, they don't have the resources or ability to tell what bikes are legal or illegal, so the simple cheap solution is just to ban then all.

So the result will be exactly what we're seen in this case. They will blame "risk" or some other non quantifiable reason for the decision and ensure that it's normal pedal bikes only. Because that is the line in the sand that can be checked and policed.

You can disagree with me all you want, but this is already happening.

 

[dinger19]

I'm not disagreeing with you,but I do think the constant posting about being anti dongles/s-pedelecs and it's not just you there are others on this forum do more harm than good.

 

[trex]

Col, I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

this is from the BHF website:

Can I use any bike for the ride?
Only bicycles (two wheeled, non-powered cycles) must be ridden.

You don't need a specialist bike but as the ride is on-road, a road bike is the most efficient bike to use; however it's not imperative.

We also recommend that you use a bike with gears and ensure that everything is road worthy and in working order before the big day.

It is essential that you check gears, brakes, the bike frame and wheels. If you're not confident in checking these then you should take your bike to a bike shop.

If you plan to use a mountain bike, we suggest you replace the off-road tyres with 'slick' tyres. This will reduce the friction and make your challenge a little easier.

Remember you must also wear a helmet for the duration of the ride. This will reduce the severity of any head injuries in case of an accident.

I think they simply want to reduce the overall risks in what is a very large event with more than 10,000 people taking part.
As a side remark, If you ride an e-bike in such events, you will overtake the majority of participating cyslists. If I ride a normal push bike in such an event and get overtaken by a fit cyclist on an e-bike toward the end of the ride, I will have no hesitation to call out 'cheat'.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

We're constantly posting about it because its a big problem, and an important issue at the moment - that will effect us all.

If the information causes only a couple of people to realise that buying a dongle or sPedelec isn't worth the risk to themselves or the wider community then its worth it.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Col, I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

this is from the BHF website:



I think they simply want to reduce the overall risks in what is a very large event with more than 10,000 people taking part.
As a side remark, If you ride an e-bike in such events, you will overtake the majority of participating cyslists. If I ride a normal push bike in such an event and get overtaken by a fit cyclist on an e-bike toward the end of the ride, I will have no hesitation to call out 'cheat'.

its not a race, so you can't cheat! Also pedelec's are legally classed as bicycles, so they can't class them as anything else. How is a legal pedelec anymore of a risk than a normal cyclist??

 

[tillson]

This is the key fundamental problem that the people who think the illegal bikes aren't an issue - just aren't getting their head around.

The people like BHF, or in the future the Foresty Commission, or National Parks etc etc. Aren't going to put in writing that they are banning all eBikes because of the illegal ones, because the illegal ones are already banned! So their legal teams won't let them, because it could be challenged because they are banning something legal because of something else.

However in practice, they don't have the resources or ability to tell what bikes are legal or illegal, so the simple cheap solution is just to ban then all.

So the result will be exactly what we're seen in this case. They will blame "risk" or some other non quantifiable reason for the decision and ensure that it's normal pedal bikes only. Because that is the line in the sand that can be checked and policed.

You can disagree with me all you want, but this is already happening.

I thought that a legal ebike was looked upon as a bicycle, subjected to exactly the same rules and regulations as an unpowered machine. So, if BHF are banning legal ebikes, aren't they effectively banning all bicycles from their cycling event?

As I understand matters, nowhere in UK legislation is their a provision to ban legal ebikes from public places where ordinary unpowered bikes are allowed to go. I understand that the BHF's ban is probably a condition of entry, but it might not stand up to a legal challenge, especially if the event is run on roads.

We should all turn up on ebikes and join in, accompanying all the entrants. There is nothing that they can do to stop that from happening.

Private sites, such as FC owned trail centres are another matter, but it would seem wrong of them to ban legal bikes for the reasons stated above.

 

[nemesis]

The problem is the front riders on their 7k carbon race bikes with aero wheels and helmets set off at full speed and treat it as a race.If someone on a speed pedelec was amongst them and caused or was involved in a pileup then the legal implications would be bad for the organiser and the pedelec rider.So play it safe and ban them all.

 

[trex]

Col, BHF do not ban e-bikes in all the bike rides organized by them or by the cycling events companies, only in some big rides.

http://www.bike-events.co.uk/Generic.aspx?tid=RideRules

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I thought that a legal ebike was looked upon as a bicycle, subjected to exactly the same rules and regulations as an unpowered machine. So, if BHF are banning legal ebikes, aren't they effectively banning all bicycles from their cycling event?

As I understand matters, nowhere in UK legislation is their a provision to ban legal ebikes from public places where ordinary unpowered bikes are allowed to go. I understand that the BHF's ban is probably a condition of entry, but it might not stand up to a legal challenge, especially if the event is run on roads.

We should all turn up on ebikes and join in, accompanying all the entrants. There is nothing that they can do to stop that from happening.

Private sites, such as FC owned trail centres are another matter, but it would seem wrong of them to ban legal bikes for the reasons stated above.

Its only like big running events banning their participants from wearing headphones. They aren't illegal, etc etc, but its their rules for their event, so they can enforce them if they want.

 

[Wicky]

I can see that's what you'd like to think.

But they have clearly said - "They state in their communications to us that e-bikes pose a ‘risk’."

They wouldn't use the word risk if they simply wanted to create a level playing field, they'd just say, "we want to create a level playing field". That's a good enough reason.

But what context was the word 'risk' used? Did someone telephone / write to them asking what the problem was and just got a one word reply...

Was the charity spokesperson like the Father Ted character, Jack, who instead of saying 'DRINK!' shouts 'RISK!'

 

[tillson]

Its only like big running events banning their participants from wearing headphones. They aren't illegal, etc etc, but its their rules for their event, so they can enforce them if they want.

It's quite likely that this is all down to some overly zealous health and safety shitmuncher. A person given infinitely more power and influence that their intelligence warrants. They are everywhere at the moment and numbers seem to be increasing.

This needs someone, like a large importer of a high profile ebike brand for instance, to have a word in someone's ear at BHF and set the record straight regarding legal EBikes.

It's my experience that there is usually someone within an organisation willing to stamp on these H&S idiots if you present a well reasoned and evidence backed case to them. Maybe this is what should be happening here.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

This needs someone, like a large importer of a high profile ebike brand for instance, to have a word in someone's ear at BHF and set the record straight regarding legal EBikes.

... and maybe at the same time putting some public pressure on them to realise that what they are doing is counter productive.

https://www.change.org/p/british-heart-foundation-bhf-to-allow-pedelec-e-bikes-to-enter-non-competitive-fundraising-bike-rides

oh, wait, that is what we're doing

 

[tillson]

oh, wait, that is what we're doing

There is no need for that, I'm just trying to help.

So when did you contact the BHF and what exactly was their response?

If you let me have the name of your contact at BHF and their role title, I'll write to them.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

There is no need for that, I'm just trying to help.

So when did you contact the BHF and what exactly was their response?

If you let me have the name of your contact at BHF and their role title, I'll write to them.

I was just having a joke, sorry if it didn't come across that way.

 

[tillson]

I was just having a joke, sorry if it didn't come across that way.

No problem, I like a joke.

So, who have you been in contact with at BHF?