Oxygen Scross MTB ongoing review

[RobF]

It's nothing to do with crank-drives or hub-motors. Andy said that he bashed his rim and bent it. This one also looks damaged, but even if that's an illusion, the damage is nothing to do with the type of motor. The forces on the rim are the same, as the spokes are being turned from the other end, and the rim doesn't see any difference whether a hub or crank motor. The torque from a crank-motor in a low gear is likely to be higher, which would do more damage.

Try not to let your prejudices colour your opinions of how physics works.

Prejudice?

Give over, Oxygen are your mates, you are biased in their favour.

As such, your opinion cannot be relied on.

I - unlike you - have no allegiance to any bike or maker.

Just consider the facts:

A crank drive bike takes a standard wheel.

If the wheel breaks, it can be replaced at any bike shop.

Hub motor wheels snap spokes, they always have done, they always will.

Pretend all you like, you are only fooling yourself.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Oxygen are no more my mates than everybody else in the trade that I know. It just happens that i like the S-cross MTB because it's a very fine bike, and I liked the MTB before it. I've probably spent more time with Bosch than Oxygen in the last 12 months.

 

[RobF]

. I've probably spent more time with Bosch than Oxygen in the last 12 months.

Do me a favour and tell them the Intuvia thumb switch isn't up to the job - they might listen to you.

It wouldn't be so bad if you could turn the motor on and off and switch levels from the main display, giving a fall back position if the thumb switch conked out.

Oh, and the walk assist switching is clumsy, having to push one button then keep another pushed.

 

[DBye]

@RobF -I'm inclined to agree with @d8veh. You'd have a stronger argument if the wheels had failed in a similar manner but they have not.

Also I am taking my wheel to a local shop to be fixed, not the manufacturer. The LBS didn't blink twice about the fact it had a hub motor in it so I don't accept your argument that these wheels are non-standard and difficult to repair.

I don't accept that all my problems would evaporate had I bought a crank drive. I suspect I would still suffer wheel issues, electrical problems, chain and sprocket wear and all the other normal issues that come with riding a bicycle.

If you have any stronger evidence to support your theory then I'd like to hear it as I am interested in improving the reliability of my bikes -hence when I mentioned finding a rim with eyelets above.

 

[Woosh]

I am interested in improving the reliability of my bikes

I would recommend check air pressure more regularly. Schwalbe inner tubes have much less air pressure loss than Chinese made inner tubes.It's more expensive to get Schwalbe tyres and innertubes in China than here, that why you don't see many with them fitted at source.

 

[DBye]

Good point -I've been running these over the winter:http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/schwalbe-winter-spike-road-tyre-k-guard/rp-prod118113

And they have two operational air pressures, one at 50psi the other at 30psi. I wonder if running at 30psi would have contributed significantly. I note the site says 50-95 psi but I swear the tyre wall says 30-50!

I'm using Planet-X Valvert (?) inner tubes.

 

[Woosh]

I think 30psi on 2" wide tyres is too low for the potholes we have.
We pump the tyres to 45 psi when they leave us.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I run the Big Bens at 3.5 bar on the upright and the back of the trike and have experimented with 2.5 and 3 bar on the front. The trike spreads the load over three tyres of course.

 

[RobF]

@RobF -I'm inclined to agree with @d8veh. You'd have a stronger argument if the wheels had failed in a similar manner but they have not.

Also I am taking my wheel to a local shop to be fixed, not the manufacturer. The LBS didn't blink twice about the fact it had a hub motor in it so I don't accept your argument that these wheels are non-standard and difficult to repair.

I don't accept that all my problems would evaporate had I bought a crank drive. I suspect I would still suffer wheel issues, electrical problems, chain and sprocket wear and all the other normal issues that come with riding a bicycle.

If you have any stronger evidence to support your theory then I'd like to hear it as I am interested in improving the reliability of my bikes -hence when I mentioned finding a rim with eyelets above.

It's not really an argument, fixing a standard bicycle wheel is a lot simpler.

My local bike shop keeps a few built wheels in stock, or there's always a secondhand bike knocking around which could be cannibalised.

You could order a standard wheel from any bike shop, and get your choice from a wide selection in a couple of days.

You could go to a specialist such as Spa, who will build/pull one of their wheels off the shelf which would be specced for your use.

As you've found, as ebikes get a tiny bit more popular, bike shops are prepared to have a go at a motor wheel, but the 'off the shelf' point still stands.

And the other poster with hub wheel problems felt compelled to go across the Pennines to the bike's importer.

Then there's the greater likelihood of such a wheel failing in the first place.

With the best will in the world, an OEM motor hub wheel that retails for £75 is not going to be good quality.

You may know, but you could expect thousands of maintenance free miles from a branded ordinary wheel, such as a Shimano or Mavic.

Wheels are just one part of bike reliability.

All I'm really saying is buying a hub motor bike for a commute is not the obvious decision some on here think it is.

 

[Planemo]

For commuting, despite my spoke issues, I am pretty sure I would still rather deal with hub motor foibles than crank drive and not have to worry about mullering chains, cassettes and chainrings which seems to be an issue with CD bikes when you are putting over twice the effort that a human would through them. Especially as I use XT drivetrain. Lord knows why someone hasnt cracked the issue with wear on crank drive bikes, its not rocket science. I hear of people spending hundreds on replacement drivetrains every few thousand km with CD bikes. Mental.

D8veh- your comment re hub offsets and needing different tensions doesnt really sit well with me either. Why cant the manufacturers just uprate everything to cope? Motorbike wheels have run offsets for umpteen years and I have yet to have to true a spoked motorbike wheel so the ability to engineer it properly is available. Its things like this that bug me, especially when the problem appears to drag on for so long. I can accept that early hub motors could have had wheel issues but there should be no excuse for problems now, many years later. Its not even like we are talking about a massive weight penalty (relatively) to beef everything up.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's not really an argument, fixing a standard bicycle wheel is a lot simpler.

Wheels are just one part of bike reliability.

All I'm really saying is buying a hub motor bike for a commute is not the obvious decision some on here think it is.

Your argument doesn't hold water.You could use the same argument the other way round about bottom brackets. At least hub-motor wheels can be fixed and so can a worn bottom bracket, but when your bottom bracket on a crank-drive goes, your completely stuffed and no ordinary bike shop would be able to help you.

 

[RobF]

Fixing a standard wheel is simpler, easier, and cheaper, and a standard wheel can be made bullet proof reliable in the first place.

None of which applies to a hub motor wheel.

But as I said, overall bike reliability is about more than just wheels.

There are things for running a hub motor bike as a commuter, but there are also many things against it.

Hence there is a decision to be made, it is not cut and dried either way.

 

[RobF]

For commuting, despite my spoke issues, I am pretty sure I would still rather deal with hub motor foibles than crank drive and not have to worry about mullering chains, cassettes and chainrings which seems to be an issue with CD bikes when you are putting over twice the effort that a human would through them. Especially as I use XT drivetrain. Lord knows why someone hasnt cracked the issue with wear on crank drive bikes, its not rocket science. I hear of people spending hundreds on replacement drivetrains every few thousand km with CD bikes. Mental.

It is fiction to say a legal crank drive bike is hard on chains.

The combined effort of ebiker and motor is no more - and probably less - than a strong club standard rider.

Buy a crank drive with properly engineered power delivery - such as a Bosch or Yamaha - and the chain will last as long as it would on a push bike.

A crank drive - or front hub motor - opens up the possibility of a hub gear.

Chains on those last even longer, plonk a ChainGlider guard on and you will probably get years out of a chain.

Track down one of the rare ebikes with a fully enclosed chain and the chain will literally never wear out.

As I say, there's a bit more to speccing a commuter ebike than saying 'hub motor is best'.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It is fiction to say a legal crank drive bike is hard on chains.

The combined effort of ebiker and motor is no more - and probably less - than a strong club standard rider.

Buy a crank drive with properly engineered power delivery - such as a Bosch or Yamaha - and the chain will last as long as it would on a push bike.

A crank drive - or front hub motor - opens up the possibility of a hub gear.

Chains on those last even longer, plonk a ChainGlider guard on and you will probably get years out of a chain.

Track down one of the rare ebikes with a fully enclosed chain and the chain will literally never wear out.

As I say, there's a bit more to speccing a commuter ebike than saying 'hub motor is best'.

... and then you woke up.

 

[RobF]

... and then you woke up.

There was some dreadful Chinese crank contraption fitted to a Kudos bike that was hard on chains and transmissions.

The Bosch system is not hard on chains - 6,000 miles on the original chain on my Rose/Bosch and still fine when I sold it, as an example.

You have decided on a false conclusion - 'hubs is best' - and are desperately trying to make the facts fit,.

They will not fit, no matter how many times you try.

I know you are a lacky for Oxygen, nothing wrong with that, and I quite liked the two I tried.

But facts is facts.

 

[Trevormonty]

I'm getting 1200km from 11spd chain on eMTB, which not lot different from normal MTB. On STEPs 9spd commuter 2500km.

I make point of changing chains at 0.75 mark. Don't know mileage from my unpowered bikes as no odmeter and didn't use to measure them.

You can do lot higher mileage than these figures before having problems. For commuting 300% 9spd is plenty and cheap to maintain, Go to 8spd IGH and things get even cheaper. Unpowered bike on hilly terrain would need over 400% so more expensive drivetrain eg 1x11, 2x10 or 3x9.

 

[Retyred1]

It is fiction to say a legal crank drive bike is hard on chains.

The combined effort of ebiker and motor is no more - and probably less - than a strong club standard rider.

Buy a crank drive with properly engineered power delivery - such as a Bosch or Yamaha - and the chain will last as long as it would on a push bike.

A crank drive - or front hub motor - opens up the possibility of a hub gear.

Chains on those last even longer, plonk a ChainGlider guard on and you will probably get years out of a chain.

Track down one of the rare ebikes with a fully enclosed chain and the chain will literally never wear out.

As I say, there's a bit more to speccing a commuter ebike than saying 'hub motor is best'.

I agree here RobF, I've had a Haibike Sduro (Yamaha) for near 2 years and done over 2500kms. Never once replaced the chain or any other gear - in fact I've only ever had 1 puncture. I really can't understand why some members are replacing chains and cassettes after a few hundred kms. Going by remarks on here a Yamaha should chew through chains, being practically zero cadence.

To be fair I don't bother measuring my chain with a Park tool, far rather just do a good visual check. It is kept well oiled with my own mix.

Most of my riding is off road mountain tracks ( I live in a mountainous area in NZ) so it does get a good workout. Perhaps at my age I'm not as strong as some riders so this may contribute to chain life.

I've never ridden a bike with a hub motor so can't comment on that.

 

[RobF]

Me and d8 agree on one thing - if you went by chain gauges you would be changing the chain every five minutes on any bike.

Conditions must come into it, a lot of eMTBs are Bosch and mountain biking - in certain types of dirt - will wear a chain.

But in those conditions, a chain on a hub eMTB or a push bike MTB would wear just as fast.

 

[Andy Bluenoes]

First day back on the bike today after a week off.

Strange gridning sound coming ffrom the back somewhere, sounded like teeth or gears grating.
A few yards later, Im peddaling, but no movement apart from the pedal assist. Gears changing okay, but the cassette freewheeling, so looks like thats buggered.
Not the original one as I had changed it maybe 1000 miles or more ago.
I cant remember if its 11-34 or 11-32T

It was kind of nice riding the 1.5 miles back on throttle to get my car though....

 

[JPGiant]

On some cassette brands, the number of teeth is stamped on each ring.