I recently noticed the Orbea Gain bikes. In particular I like the Urban range. It really seems to be a great option for city and medium-short range commuting. Does anybody own one? There isn't much user information about them.
Orbea Gain
- Thread starter spinellino
- Start date
The worry for me is the integrated battery. Like all batteries it has a finite life and I'd be concerned about its availability. There's only a tiny market for this kind of low power assist e-bike and Orbea is a Spanish company.
This isn't a small risk since it's happened before. One in frame battery bike from one of the USA's biggest suppliers, Izip, had no battery availablity after only one year when they discontinued the model, and no substitute was ever made available.
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looks very neat, tend to agree with flecc there is a risk with the battery - but you still have options if Orbea abandon the model. You could recell what the bike comes with or stick a 36V battery in a bottle cage, not pretty but workable
Good point. The (maybe) good thing is that the motor+battery are provided by ebikemotion, who are selling the combo to other companies as well. If one of the companies that uses the battery abandon it maybe you can still get spare parts from another one. On the other hand if it's ebikemotion itself that stops producing it, then it's going to be a bit of a problem.
Spain not being a cycling nation...
Mallavia is a town with some of those +20% gradients we often talk about. They call them "streets". And just on the north side is the industrial area with Spains largest bike manufacturer. Maybe the idea of "light assist" was born while riding back home from work?
The battery comes out of the bottom of the tube in the BB area
So it should be easy enough to re-cell when it wears out. Ebikemotion is another company from Biscay.
Yes I know Spain is a cycling nation, but both BH and Orbea were very late into e-bikes, Orbea especially just buying in Dutch e-bikes and rebadging them for a while. Orbea themselves say the Gain model has light assistance and say this "Gain was designed to enhance your ride, not dominate it."Spain not being a cycling nation...
Mallavia is a town with some of those +20% gradients we often talk about. They call them "streets". And just on the north side is the industrial area with Spains largest bike manufacturer. Maybe the idea of "light assist" was born while riding back home from work?
The battery comes out of the bottom of the tube in the BB area
View attachment 25226
So it should be easy enough to re-cell when it wears out. Ebikemotion is another company from Biscay.
Yes the battery can be recelled, but for many that's just additional aggravation and doesn't help if the BMS fails. And companies increasingly try to prevent recelling with battery case difficulties like non-detachable latching between sides.
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They got in late because in the Basque country they are just a bunch of lycras
Just got back from the local big bike shop over the border and things have changed a bit since last year's visit in the e-bike line:
- fewer BH compared with a year ago
- Haibike in numbers
- Moonraker in numbers
- Giant as entry level bikes (new brand in shop)
- about 5 times the surface and number of e-bikes on display
This store has literally hundreds of bikes on display and at a rough guess over 100 different e-bikes.
Just got back from the local big bike shop over the border and things have changed a bit since last year's visit in the e-bike line:
- fewer BH compared with a year ago
- Haibike in numbers
- Moonraker in numbers
- Giant as entry level bikes (new brand in shop)
- about 5 times the surface and number of e-bikes on display
This store has literally hundreds of bikes on display and at a rough guess over 100 different e-bikes.
Going back to the original question, I've had my Gain for 10weeks now and whilst mine is a D20, i.e. with dropped bars on, the motor, battery etc are the same.
To save a lot of retyping, see this topic on CycleChat where I've given my insight.
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/orbea-gain.229793/
To save a lot of retyping, see this topic on CycleChat where I've given my insight.
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/orbea-gain.229793/
Copy/Paste is your friend
:"Right, first ride out today on the new Gain, not far only 21miles and I only averaged 11mph but enough to get the feel of things. And my initial impression, bloody brilliant! It's a bit like riding with a tail wind gently pushing you along all the time.
It wasn't a particularly hill route today and I deliberately left the power set in Eco or minimal assistance. The result was I felt like I was wafting along with a breeze behind me. You've still got to use the gears for the hills and pedalling at over 15mph I didn't feel any drag from the (now off) motor. After 21 gentle miles I’d used 30% of the power so a 60mile range ought to be viable, but a hillier route would undoubtedly bite into that range.
Overall the fit was very good, my previous everyday bike has a 59cm frame and putting the two side by side everything looked pretty close and the controls fell easily to hand. Everything else seems well made & finished and the bike was silent, no noise from the motor at all. My bike is fitted with a Sram 1x11 groupset and everything work just as it should. The brakes however are exceptional. I'm no lightweight and they hauled the combined mass of me and the bike down with consummate easy.
Downside, weight, you ain't no light weight, but it's no heavier than my 531st framed tourer and riding at 15+ mph (i.e. with the motor off) I couldn't feel any extra drag from the motor. I’ll be changing the 40mm gravel tyres to something narrower and more road oriented for the summer, but I knew that was something I probably be having to do anyway. The OEM saddle, ouch, not my shape and I swapped it for a leather saddle that I know I can ride miles on. Saddles however are a personal thing and it might suit you just fine. The rest of the kit, does what it says on the tin.
Electric bike related issues. The Green, Amber and Red light indicating the assistance level on the top tube could be brighter. Today was a bright day and you needed a proper look down rather than a glance to check the setting level, but the actual use of it is dead easy. Playing about with the power levels, dropping down from high to medium or medium to low induces a small amount engine braking for second or two but it isn't a problem. And that's it, no problems, no dramas, just got on and rode it with a big grin on my face.
Bottom line, when I got home Mrs W asked me how I got on what did I think? My answer "You've just got to get one if these, bloody brilliant.""
Hi Flecc, remember me? We interacted quite a lot 10 years ago when I first joined this forum (I was chris_bike then, but lost the account when I retired and forgot to change my email!). In those days, I was an evangelist for Cytronex and, if my memory serves me well, you were quite sceptical?
Actually, I think the original Cytronex was a game changer, but I'm much less impressed with the most recent offering.
I only rehearse this because your worries about the Orbea battery remind me of some of those conversations. Surely the key issue is that the ebikemotion kit is now being fitted by at least three major international manufacturers. The same can be said of the Fazua solution that has been adopted by Pinarello, hardly an insignificant player, but even newer to ebikes than Orbea.
I suspect these two systems will become the industry standard for about the next ten years when, like Cytronex, they'll get replaced by something better.
Hi Chris. Yes I remembered you straight away when you posted earlier. My scepticism in the early Cytronex days was based on the mainstream demand at that time for ever bigger batteries, with Cytronex going against that trend. But of course it was for a specialised market.
I agree with you about the end of the bottle battery for that market now, the integrated designs are so much more appealing, stylish and often truly stealthy. They'll gain in capacity too as batteries advance, so could eventually become more mainstream.
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I think we agree! I also think another point you made 10 years ago is pertinent. Some of the attraction of these new bikes depends on the fitness if the rider and what they are looking for. Orbea's "Just Enough" marketing is commendably honest. The motor delivers lowish torque by comparison with some (about 40Nm, I think the Fazua is 60). This WILL translate to more rider effort on hills (although owners contributing to these fora seem content). But a less powerful motor will also deliver greater range and that is a big thing with road cyclists.
60NM at the chainring but reduced at the rear wheel after gearing.
I am not convinced about more range, sure, with a weak motor, you may be forced to put in more energy when climbing than you would if the motor can keep on delivering but the difference in battery consumption would be small, these systems are based on torque sensing.
There are more and more bikes coming to the market with hidden battery and hidden controller, some go as far as replacing the LCD with Bluetooth.
This is one. The controls and USB socket are hidden under the black flap on the downtube.
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/2018/karoo/karoo-2018.jpg
That's a nice looking bike. I really like the stealthy look, I think this is probably the look manufacturers are going to be aiming for over the next few years. Especially if battery technology keeps improving, ie. ever greater capacity in ever smaller space.
you can connect and external downtube/seat tube battery if you need to extend the 8AH hidden battery. The battery wires are at the top of the downtube, just behind the panel, under the black flap.
I'm afraid that it's really just a consequence of the First Law of Thermodynamics (the "energy can neither be created nor destroyed" one). A battery of a given size stores a fixed amount of energy. The faster you put it out, the shorter the battery life. So a very fit rider, putting out lots of power him/herself, will make lower demands on the battery, which should go further.
that is so far true, but given the same route, same rider, the amount of air drag is about the same, the required energy to go from A to B is about the same. For a typical condition of 100kg bike + rider at 15mph, the required energy is about 12WH per mile, if the rider puts in 50% in eco mode, the motor would supply 6WH per mile, 6WH * 15/H = 90W. Even if you have a more capable motor, you don't use more than that 90W.
he is not going to push the motor to the max, so does not consume more.
I
My only point is that delivering higher torque from a motor doesn't come free, it requires energy from the battery. In that respect, it would be good to know how the real range of the Ebikemotion and Fazua systems compare under proper experimental conditions.
I think we agree. Basically, the more work the motor is doing, the shorter the range for a given battery capacity. Reductio ad Absurdum - turn the motor off and the range is infinite!
My only point is that delivering higher torque from a motor doesn't come free, it requires energy from the battery. In that respect, it would be good to know how the real range of the Ebikemotion and Fazua systems compare under proper experimental conditions.
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